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A shoot out of sorts and a call for more

 
 
Walt Hanks
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      07-02-2005

>> <(E-Mail Removed)'s.expense> wrote:
>>
>> * Levels & curves can be applied to the digital image.


In the darkroom I can dodge and burn.

>> * Sharpening can be applied to the digital image.


Can't "sharpen" per se in the darkroom, but I can increase contrast which
increases perceived sharpness. In my opinion, sharpening tools are a poor
substitute for skill with the camera anyway.

>> * Color correction can be applied to the digital image.


And in any competent color lab.

>> * Visual imperfections or distractions can be removed from the digital
>> image.


Just where do you think the term "airbrush" came from?

>> * The digital 8x10 will be printed using digital laser wet-print,
>> technology and the negative based enlargement will likely be optical.
>>


So what? We see optically, not digitally. To be perceived, your digital
image started out as an optical image in the lens, was converted to a
digital image in either the camera or the scanner, then converted back to
optical by the eyes of the person viewing it.

>> It comes down to custom digital darkroom improvements vs dumb
>> automated enlargement. Not fair.
>>


While darkroom skills may have deteriorated in the past 10 years, there are
still some of us who remember how. And, I might add, it takes no more time
to do these corrections in a darkroom than it does to do them in a computer.
Post-processing takes time either way.

So, yes, unless you have equally skilled technicians producing both prints,
the suggested comparison is bogus. But skilled darkroom technicians can
still be found. With skill, both methods can produce superb results.

Walt


 
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Scott W
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      07-02-2005
Walt Hanks wrote:
> >> <(E-Mail Removed)'s.expense> wrote:
> >>
> >> * Levels & curves can be applied to the digital image.

>
> In the darkroom I can dodge and burn.
>
> >> * Sharpening can be applied to the digital image.

>
> Can't "sharpen" per se in the darkroom, but I can increase contrast which
> increases perceived sharpness. In my opinion, sharpening tools are a poor
> substitute for skill with the camera anyway.
>
> >> * Color correction can be applied to the digital image.

>
> And in any competent color lab.
>
> >> * Visual imperfections or distractions can be removed from the digital
> >> image.

>
> Just where do you think the term "airbrush" came from?
>
> >> * The digital 8x10 will be printed using digital laser wet-print,
> >> technology and the negative based enlargement will likely be optical.
> >>

>
> So what? We see optically, not digitally. To be perceived, your digital
> image started out as an optical image in the lens, was converted to a
> digital image in either the camera or the scanner, then converted back to
> optical by the eyes of the person viewing it.
>
> >> It comes down to custom digital darkroom improvements vs dumb
> >> automated enlargement. Not fair.
> >>

>
> While darkroom skills may have deteriorated in the past 10 years, there are
> still some of us who remember how. And, I might add, it takes no more time
> to do these corrections in a darkroom than it does to do them in a computer.
> Post-processing takes time either way.
>
> So, yes, unless you have equally skilled technicians producing both prints,
> the suggested comparison is bogus. But skilled darkroom technicians can
> still be found. With skill, both methods can produce superb results.


I both agree and disagree with what you have said here. I agree that
both methods can produce superb results. But to say that the
comparison is bogus unless the prints are made by a skilled darkroom
technician is not all true. It matter a great deal as to how much work
and or cost it takes to get to the final print. Even among those that
shoot film the trend if heavily into scanning am making prints from the
digital file. There are a few people who claim that scanned film can
not match the quality of optical print, but I don't know one of these
people who have taken the time to make prints from the same negative
both way.

Every last person I know who have compared optical printing to digital
has come away believing that the digital printing gives way better
results. Note that you can print both on to the same photographic
paper.

I find test between real people photographing with their normal
workflow, using their normal film is the most useful test. It tells us
what people are really getting, and to me that is the interesting
question.

For myself I know this, my 35mm photo can not match the quality of my
digital photos from my F828. My friend who has a better scanner and
uses a prime lens can almost match the quality of my F828, so close as
to not matter. My 20D can take far better photos then my F828 so I am
assuming that with it I could beat anything my friend could do with
film. But this is just two people I would love to see other
comparison where people go out and shoot the same photo.

Some people claim that they are not interesting in comparing 35mm film
to digital, that they like their film camera so why do they care how it
would compare to a digital camera, but I have to notice that these very
same people will turn right around and say that for quality work you
need to use film

Scott

 
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