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RAW capture & Optimize Image settings on Nikon D70

 
 
G Winstanley
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      06-02-2005
Hi all,

I've been experimenting with my relatively recent purchase of a Nikon D70
and I've been a little disappointed with the colour reproduction when
capturing in RAW/NEF mode. What I am seeking is clarification on the
"Optimize Image" settings in the menu.

From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any
difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.

Does this also apply to the Color Mode setting, which is an item lower down
in the menu?

Stan
 
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Ed Ruf
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      06-02-2005
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:03:02 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
>from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any
>difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
>Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
>Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
>settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.


PS ignores the default settings. Unless you change the Capture defaults it
starts by using these by default.

----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photog...ral/index.html
 
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G Winstanley
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-02-2005
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 06:17:26 -0400, the cup of Ed Ruf <(E-Mail Removed)>
overfloweth with the following:

> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:03:02 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
> >from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any
> >difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
> >Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
> >Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
> >settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.

>
> PS ignores the default settings. Unless you change the Capture defaults it
> starts by using these by default.
>
> ----------
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photog...ral/index.html


So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.

Stan
 
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Paul Furman
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      06-02-2005
G Winstanley wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 06:17:26 -0400, the cup of Ed Ruf <(E-Mail Removed)>
> overfloweth with the following:
>
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:03:02 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
>>>from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any

>>
>>>difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
>>>Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
>>>Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
>>>settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.

>>
>>PS ignores the default settings. Unless you change the Capture defaults it
>>starts by using these by default.
>>
>>----------
>>Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
>>See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
>>http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photog...ral/index.html

>
>
> So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
> ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
> than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
> have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
> ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
> wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
> somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.



No, you have full control in post-processing. There probably will be
some times you shoot jpegs though so set it the way you want to match
your raw conversion defaults.


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
 
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digiboy@mailinator.com
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      06-02-2005
The different color spaces have radically different sizes, with
prophoto being the biggest. If you adjust your image with prophoto and
then switch to, say, sRGB (the smallest) you'll see your colors go out
of gamut.

Personally I'd rather convert with no profile and sort out the color
space for myself later eg the dcraw method

 
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Ed Ruf
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      06-02-2005
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:09:23 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
>ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
>than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
>have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
>ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
>wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
>somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.


No. I was referring to more of the WB and other tone comp and image
adjustment settings. I believe ACR doesn't know what color space your
image is and you need to explicitly tell if which one the image was
taken in if not sRGB. However, since I don't use PS, I may be
misinformed.

__________________________________________________ ______
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
 
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birdman
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      06-03-2005
Maintain your color space as Adobe RGB for your raw capture and when you
open the image in Photoshop. Later in Photoshop you can convert color spaces
to your heart's content.
There are many tutorials on different ways to use the shadow/exposure
adjustments or make adjustments later in Photshop.
You can choose a white point in the RAW converter or balance color later in
Photoshop.
I think it is more useful to learn how to use the options for adjusting
chromatic aberrations and vignetting.
The most controversial issue about how to use the RAW converter is whether
to work in 16bits or 8 bits. There is alot of misinformation out there about
the benefits of 16bit color and how to use it and what happens when the 8
bit printer driver gets hold of the data.


 
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G Winstanley
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-03-2005
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:55:40 -0400, the cup of Ed Ruf <(E-Mail Removed)>
overfloweth with the following:

> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:09:23 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
> >So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
> >ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
> >than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
> >have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
> >ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
> >wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
> >somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.

>
> No. I was referring to more of the WB and other tone comp and image
> adjustment settings. I believe ACR doesn't know what color space your
> image is and you need to explicitly tell if which one the image was
> taken in if not sRGB. However, since I don't use PS, I may be
> misinformed.
>
> __________________________________________________ ______
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com



Ah, now we're getting closer to my intention...
> I believe ACR doesn't know what color space your image is and you need to explicitly tell if which one the image was taken in if not sRGB."


I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
in order to do processing.

However, if the RAW/NEF file contains colour space information, then it
*definitely* matters which colour space you choose in raw processing, and
should choose the one in which the image was shot in camera.

But...I'm still unsure as to which is correct, and the manual really doesn't
help me with this.

Stan
 
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G Winstanley
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-03-2005
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:17:46 GMT, the cup of "birdman"
<(E-Mail Removed)> overfloweth with the following:

> Maintain your color space as Adobe RGB for your raw capture and when you
> open the image in Photoshop. Later in Photoshop you can convert color spaces
> to your heart's content.
> There are many tutorials on different ways to use the shadow/exposure
> adjustments or make adjustments later in Photshop.
> You can choose a white point in the RAW converter or balance color later in
> Photoshop.
> I think it is more useful to learn how to use the options for adjusting
> chromatic aberrations and vignetting.
> The most controversial issue about how to use the RAW converter is whether
> to work in 16bits or 8 bits. There is alot of misinformation out there about
> the benefits of 16bit color and how to use it and what happens when the 8
> bit printer driver gets hold of the data.
>


But does have the setting Adobe RGB actually get used for the RAW file?
Surely a RAW file contains raw sensor values, not values relating to a
colour space. By my thinking the colour space information is applied when
performing the conversion from RAW into Photoshop, so my best option would
be to convert into ProPhotoRGB to give me the widest gamut possible.

This is the crux of the misunderstanding for me. Are the raw values
contained in the NEF file colour space aware, or not? If they are I need to
ensure I choose the correct colour space option in ACR; if they are not I
can choose whatever I like. What you're saying implies they *are* colour
space aware...are you sure, or is this simply whta your current workflow
would imply?

Stan
 
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Paul Furman
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-03-2005
G Winstanley wrote:
>
> I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
> have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
> would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
> in order to do processing.



There might be a little exif tag saying what the camera preferences were
but ACR lets you convert the NEF in any color space you wish. You can
change the defaults in ACR & it will open all NEFs with that default.


>
> However, if the RAW/NEF file contains colour space information, then it
> *definitely* matters which colour space you choose in raw processing, and
> should choose the one in which the image was shot in camera.
>
> But...I'm still unsure as to which is correct, and the manual really doesn't
> help me with this.
>
> Stan


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
 
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