«

.... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...

http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily

--
Frank ess

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
wrote:

>... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
>comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
>
>http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily

Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
that a heavier camera helps damp out.
At least the author mentioned this.
-Rich

RichA wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
> wrote:
>
>
>>... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
>>comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
>>
>>http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily
>
>
> Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
> something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
> gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
> that a heavier camera helps damp out.
> At least the author mentioned this.
> -Rich

Humm. So the ideal camera would weigh in at 20 lbs., and be the size of
a breadbox? Somehow I doubt I would carry one like that.


--
Ron Hunter

RichA wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
> wrote:
>
>
>>... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
>>comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
>>
>>http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily
>
>
> Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
> something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
> gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
> that a heavier camera helps damp out.


A heavier camera will tire you out faster making control more difficult.
A lighter camera, properly held, will not shake in your hands unless
you have other motor control problems.

OTOH, there are monopods.


--
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-- slr-systems FAQ project: http://tinyurl.com/6m9aw
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

In article <>,
RichA <> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
> wrote:
>
> >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
> >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
> >
> >http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily
>
> Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
> something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
> gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
> that a heavier camera helps damp out.
> At least the author mentioned this.
> -Rich

Angular momentum is a lot more important than total weight. You want
the weight at the edges, not the center.

I doubt there's much difference between the XT and 20D as far as angular
momentum goes. The quality of your grip on the camera would matter much
more. You have to try holding them.

The 10D is a camera where I'd say that weight is a disadvantage. My
wrist would be in spasms if I had to carry that brick and a lens for a
few hours.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:59:04 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

> Angular momentum is a lot more important than total weight.
> You want the weight at the edges, not the center.

I know what you mean, but I think that's the wrong term. If the
camera isn't rotating it has no angular momentum. Sorry, but I
don't recall what the proper term is. Possibly moment of inertia?
Or some other term coined with "moment". Placing more of the weight
at the edges inhibits changes in momentum. For the reason you
mention I always thought the design of many "pro" cameras would have
been more functional if some of their excessive height was traded
for a bit more width.

ASAAR wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:59:04 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>
>> Angular momentum is a lot more important than total weight.
>> You want the weight at the edges, not the center.
>
> I know what you mean, but I think that's the wrong term. If the
> camera isn't rotating it has no angular momentum. Sorry, but I
> don't recall what the proper term is. Possibly moment of inertia?
> Or some other term coined with "moment". Placing more of the weight
> at the edges inhibits changes in momentum. For the reason you
> mention I always thought the design of many "pro" cameras would have
> been more functional if some of their excessive height was traded
> for a bit more width.

"Polar moment of inertia"?
http://www.k12.nf.ca/gc/Staff/Teache...olarmoment.htm

Seems to me a light camera on a heavy lens is more likely to rotate
around some locus in the lens; a heavy-heavy camera-lens is likely to
rotate around the center of the combination; a light-light is more
likely to respond to small inputs than either of the preceding.

I think the determining characteristic is mass. Heavier is harder to
start and stop, more stable static and in motion. The "balance" is
pretty much secondary.

Of course if you clamp that sucker to your forehead with your eye to the
viewfinder, the system is now quite a bit more stable and complex. It
may be that technique can compensate for low mass.


--
Frank ess

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:15:42 -0700, Frank ess wrote:

> "Polar moment of inertia"?
> http://www.k12.nf.ca/gc/Staff/Teache...olarmoment.htm

Thanks. Haven't checked it out yet but that sounds right.


> Seems to me a light camera on a heavy lens is more likely to rotate
> around some locus in the lens; a heavy-heavy camera-lens is likely to
> rotate around the center of the combination; a light-light is more
> likely to respond to small inputs than either of the preceding.
>
> I think the determining characteristic is mass. Heavier is harder to
> start and stop, more stable static and in motion. The "balance" is
> pretty much secondary.

Yes, greater mass is useful, as is the case with the heavy barrels
used on target rifles. But the distribution of mass also plays a
part. As Kevin pointed out, distributing it more towards the
periphery than the center can be beneficial in that it would make
the camera more resistant to rotational forces. That was my point
about making the camera wider rather than taller, because I think
(and may be mistaken) that there would be greater forces trying to
rotate the camera about a vertical axis than those trying to rotate
the camera around a horizontal axis, in effect making the camera's
lens dive towards the ground like a dowsing rod.


> Of course if you clamp that sucker to your forehead with your eye to the
> viewfinder, the system is now quite a bit more stable and complex. It
> may be that technique can compensate for low mass.

When I first read "clamp" I took it too literally, and the first
picture that popped into my mind was of some young space cadet
having a camera clamped to his head like some of those small
headband mounted flashlights. And getting around from one picture
location to the next on a pogo stick. That's a technique that needs
more than mere compensation.

"RichA" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
> wrote:
>
> >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
> >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
> >
> >http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily
>
> Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
> something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
> gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
> that a heavier camera helps damp out.
> At least the author mentioned this.

So that's all a hyperlight camera gets you? I can think of at least one
major benefit of a lighter camera and I think I'm starting to learn to not
bother reading your posts. If I need a heavier camera I can always throw on
the battery grip.

Greg

Apparently some people are steadier if they are carrying an anvil. I think
they would probably be steadier yet if they left the anvil at home along
with their pint of Jack Daniels.

--
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home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
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http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
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"G.T." <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> "RichA" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
> > >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
> > >
> > >http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily
> >
> > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
> > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
> > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
> > that a heavier camera helps damp out.
> > At least the author mentioned this.
>
> So that's all a hyperlight camera gets you? I can think of at least one
> major benefit of a lighter camera and I think I'm starting to learn to not
> bother reading your posts. If I need a heavier camera I can always throw
on
> the battery grip.
>
> Greg
>
>