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prosumer future

 
 
Skip M
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      03-05-2005
"Barry Bean" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns960FE5CE08D56eatmorecotton@207.14.113.17.. .
> "Skip M" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:TD8Wd.44056$xt.13029
> @fed1read07:
>
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>>> The cameras you talk about are (at best) mid-range consumer cameras.
>>> Prosumer does not start until you get past the 300D, D70, *1Ds, and E1
>>> cameras;

>>
>> I'm guessing that you mean "*istD" not *1Ds...
>> And the Oly E-1 is a solid prosumer camera.

>
> "Prosumer" is a meaningless category. Pros use what works, whether that's
> a
> $20K Canon or a beat up OM-1. Consumers use whatever they want. A
> "prosumer" is presumably a serious photographer, or at least wants very
> fine equipment. His needs are not mutually exclusive from either
> professionals or consumers, but there is no common thread between various
> prosumers in the same way that there is between professional s who simply
> demand reliable high performance.
>


Do you have a better term to describe a camera that is aimed higher than the
lowest common denominator entry level and the full blown
take-it-to-the-Arctic professional grade camera? I'm not happy with the
term "prosumer," much like I'm not happy with most manufactured terminology,
but there doesn't seem to be a more appropriate one available, or in use.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


 
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Alfred Molon
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      03-05-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Confused
says...

> > It's a DLSR. Cameras as the Sony 828, Olympus 8080, Canon G2 are all
> > prosumers. There has always been a consensus about this.

>
> No no no... that's the brainwashing of marketing departments.


Nope. That has been the consensus in this newsgroup for years.

> If one is a "prosumer" the other is a "prosucker".


And here you have just managed to insult millions of people.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
 
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Steven M. Scharf
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      03-05-2005

"Skip M" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:GrbWd.44078$xt.33683@fed1read07...
> Do you have a better term to describe a camera that is aimed higher than

the
> lowest common denominator entry level and the full blown
> take-it-to-the-Arctic professional grade camera? I'm not happy with the
> term "prosumer," much like I'm not happy with most manufactured

terminology,
> but there doesn't seem to be a more appropriate one available, or in use.


I don't like "Prosumer" either, but I've not found any better term.

http://www.wordspy.com/words/prosumer.asp

"A consumer who is an amateur in a particular field, but who is
knowledgeable enough to require equipment that has some professional
features ("professional" + "consumer")"

I guess I would say that a "prosumer" camera, has some features similar to
professional models, but the ruggedness and build-quality is not up to
professional standards.


 
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Steven M. Scharf
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      03-05-2005

"Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> In article <MRRVd.43916$xt.29880@fed1read07>, Skip M says...
>
> > And a sincere one, too. If the Sony 828 and Nikon 8800 are "prosumer"
> > cameras, then what is the Canon 20D?

>
> It's a DLSR. Cameras as the Sony 828, Olympus 8080, Canon G2 are all
> prosumers. There has always been a consensus about this.


Huh?

Those cameras are higher-end compact digital cameras. They are not
"Prosumer" by a long shot.


 
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Steven M. Scharf
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      03-05-2005

"Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

> Nope. That has been the consensus in this newsgroup for years.


ROTFLMAO!


 
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Confused
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      03-05-2005
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:28:34 +0100
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>
Alfred Molon <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Confused
> says...
>
> > > It's a DLSR. Cameras as the Sony 828, Olympus 8080, Canon G2 are all
> > > prosumers. There has always been a consensus about this.

> >
> > No no no... that's the brainwashing of marketing departments.

>
> Nope. That has been the consensus in this newsgroup for years.
>
> > If one is a "prosumer" the other is a "prosucker".

>
> And here you have just managed to insult millions of people.


If that is a broad brush insult, then I am at the top of the list. It
is a fact that we have been in, and will continue to be in, a
disposable technology phase of technology development. We, several
generations, are addicted to the change and advances that allow a
seemingly unbounded phase of creativity and learning. The "tools of
the trades" (for lack of a better term on my part) are being both held
back and advanced at the same time. The advances in hardware and
manufacturing, and more importantly, the vast amount of knowledge and
*understanding* of digital photography exhibited by this forum.

We are, however, considered suckers -- ignorant consumers -- by
marketing departments that are type casting us into various price
points so we can be replacing our gear every few years. If that
insults you, well, it insults me too. The very term "prosumer" is
degrading and insulting when it refers to a separation of
intelligence. I am not a professional in the camera field, and if I
have been promoted from a "prosumer" to something else, and I accept
the type-casting and made-up terminology as valid, than that indeed
makes me a sucker. So what is this class of consumer to be called?
"LowEndDSLRsumers"

As to insulting millions, that is highly debatable. If I said to
NASCAR group of fans that we are suckers for paying the high price of
race tickets, a few may be insulted, but most of us would be all
"Yeah, so? That's racing, ya redneck!" Heck, people who buy lower
priced tickets to events could be called "prosumers" ... how would the
mid priced ticket buyers be positioned?

Jeff
 
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David J. Littleboy
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      03-05-2005

"Steven M. Scharf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eBeWd.2563$(E-Mail Removed) ink.net...
>
> "Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> > Nope. That has been the consensus in this newsgroup for years.

>
> ROTFLMAO!


It's interesting to see Alfred get bashed on this. My memory has it that the
term prosumer was introduced into the digital camera world for exactly the
use he suggests. The meaning appears to have changed over the intervening
years, though.

(IMHO, it's always been a completely bogus term. But that's a different
question.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


 
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Confused
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      03-05-2005
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 08:44:06 GMT
In message <qjeWd.1819$(E-Mail Removed). net>
"Steven M. Scharf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Skip M" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:GrbWd.44078$xt.33683@fed1read07...
> > Do you have a better term to describe a camera that is aimed higher than

> the
> > lowest common denominator entry level and the full blown
> > take-it-to-the-Arctic professional grade camera? I'm not happy with the
> > term "prosumer," much like I'm not happy with most manufactured

> terminology,
> > but there doesn't seem to be a more appropriate one available, or in use.

>
> I don't like "Prosumer" either, but I've not found any better term.
>
> http://www.wordspy.com/words/prosumer.asp
>
> "A consumer who is an amateur in a particular field, but who is
> knowledgeable enough to require equipment that has some professional
> features ("professional" + "consumer")"


If that is the accepted definition of "prosumer" then ANY camera that
has some professional features is a prosumer camera. That includes
the most expensive and antique cameras available.

> I guess I would say that a "prosumer" camera, has some features similar to
> professional models, but the ruggedness and build-quality is not up to
> professional standards.


I see the term "prosumer" commonly used to refer to both groups of
people as well as types of cameras made and marketed to the "producer"
market -- I was confused -- one term, two different popular usages,
and an entirely different definition.

Jeff
 
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Confused
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      03-05-2005
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 09:03:06 GMT
In message <eBeWd.2563$(E-Mail Removed). net>
"Steven M. Scharf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> > Nope. That has been the consensus in this newsgroup for years.

>
> ROTFLMAO!


Heh! Thanks for reminding me...

I should have seen the paradox...

A usenet group with a consensus!

And for years, at that! ;^)

Jeff
 
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Steven M. Scharf
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      03-05-2005

"Confused" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> If that is the accepted definition of "prosumer" then ANY camera that
> has some professional features is a prosumer camera. That includes
> the most expensive and antique cameras available.


For film SLRs, at least in the past couple of decades, there have always
been the el-cheapo consumer models (i.e. Rebel), followed by a much higher
end consumer model with better build quality and more features (i.e.
EOS-5/A2E), which was dubbed "prosumer," and then the true professional
quality models (i.e. EOS-1). Personally I never saw any of the compact 35mm
cameras labeled as "Prosumer," even though some of them had more features
than others, and the same went for digital. I guess you could argue that
something like the presence or absence of a hot shoe on a compact digital,
distinguished it between consumer and prosumer, but I never heard that term
used in reference to something like the G2.

All of the above pretty much transferred into the digital world. However the
fact that the sensor is now built-in, versus being sold on rolls, has
changed things, so there is a lot bigger difference between the quality
possible between amateur and professional. With film, you could have used an
L lens on a Rebel, and in many situations gotten results that were just as
good as if it had been on an EOS-1 body. With digital, the differences are
more pronounced.


 
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