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Nikon D70 dSLR or Nikon CP8800 Non dSLR (Non-CCD Cleaning!!) ??

 
 
Joseph Miller
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      03-03-2005
Graham Holden wrote:
<snip>
>
> If I _did_ have to make the choice again, I'd probably not make it between
> a 6MP dSLR and an 8MP p&s, as I don't think the extra 2 million p&s pixels
> are probably worth it for the price difference. Instead, I'd probably look
> for a good 4/5MP p&s. There's less compromise from packing so many pixels
> into a small sensor, more portability and a greater price differential.


This is a superb, well though-out post, and I was especially interested
in the last paragraph. I have been going through exactly the same
problem: dslr or Nikon 8800. After months of thinking about these two,
I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a Panasonic Z20. What I did was review
all the shooting I did in the last year with a 5 Mpix camera (Canon
s500)and ask, what did I wish I had most. It was a much longer zoom
range and vibration reduction always at hand. Next was a faster and
better lens at the corners. Next was a lot more flexibilty. What did I
want to retain as much as possible? Small size and portability.
Reasonably fast shutter response. I realized that the Panasonic was
much closer to what I wanted than a dslr. Since it can be had for under
$500, it is not a major investment. When I start sensing that I am
missing shots or not getting as good shots as I should be, then I'll
seriously look at a dslr. With my S500, I feel that over 90% of the
pictures could not be improved if I had taken tham with a fine dslr. The
other 10% weren't any great loss either. I also carefully compared
images with the Panasonic and dslrs, and while the latter were better,
they were not that much better for normal use. I decided I liked the
idea of owning a dslr more than i would actually benefit from having
one. And I've owned fine film slr's for decades.

Joe
 
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Oliver Costich
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      03-04-2005
On 2 Mar 2005 21:59:13 -0800, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Try www.dpreview.com, and work out what is really important to you - it
>really depends on what you want to shoot.
>
>I would be a bit more concerned about the 8800's shutter lag and
>general slowness, than the occasional need to clean a CCD. How often
>will you shoot moving objects? How often will you change the lens in a
>dusty environment? What about noise (high in the 8800)?... etc..



You beat me to it. That's the biggest issue between DSLR and nonDSLR
if lens variety isn't that important.

CCD cleaning is not so bad with SensorSwabs.
 
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Oliver Costich
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      03-04-2005
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:19:49 +0000, Graham Holden
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:48:40 GMT, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>Could anyone please help me with a difficult decision I can't seem to make?
>>
>>I'm stuck between the Nikon CP8800 and the Nikon D70.
>>
>>Here is my difficulty: The whole CCD cleaning thing is putting me off buying
>>a dSLR. Every site you look at about cleaning the CCD, you are warned that
>>it's difficult to do correctly, you can easily ruin your camera and, you can
>>invalidate the warrenty. Besides, I want a camera to take pictures with, not
>>to be regularly cleaning it!
>>
>>I would be grateful for your thoughts/experiences, AND opinions on the
>>CP8800?
>>
>>Thank you everyone in anticipation of your help.
>>
>>Darrell Burnett.
>>

>
>My experience below. Not necessarily the "right" way of doing things, nor
>the right answer for everyone, but just "for information":
>
>When I started looking for a decent digital camera, I originally started
>looking at the 8700 (initially for no other reason than I saw a second-
>hand one in a window -- at that time, I hadn't done any research). As I
>dug into things, I got to the stage of trying to decide between the 8700
>and the 8800 (I liked what the 8800 offered, but it cost more etc.). I was
>on the verge of getting one or the other a couple of times, but never got
>to the "commit" stage.
>
>Initially, I had not so much "rejected" a dSLR, as never really considered
>one -- I wasn't a converting-SLR-film-user, and although I knew the basics,
>"playing with lenses and all that hassle" was "too much bother" for what I
>wanted.
>
>However, as I put off deciding between the 8700/8800 for longer, I saw more
>and more info/advice/dogmatism that led me to begin to consider a dSLR (and
>specifically the D70). At first this was "if only..."; but as I read more
>of the differences between the top-end (or, at least, 8MP) p&s cameras and
>bottom-end (6MP) dSLRs, the D70 became more and more attractive.
>
>In the end, I went for the D70 for a number of reasons, at least a couple
>of which are I hope legitimate:
>
>(a) Especially in difficult conditions, six million dSLR pixels should give
>better photos than eight million p&s ones;
>
>(b) Although it's not a situation that will crop up that often, I'd
>recently been to a Formula 1 training day at Silverstone, and couldn't get
>the shots I wanted with a compact film zoom camera nor an old/cheap digital
>p&s. While the D70 body isn't "professional sports standard", better
>shutter-lag, shot-speed and buffer-speed, plus not having an EVF that
>blanks between shots should be of benefit if I am ever in a similar
>situation.
>
>(c) The general "expandability" of a dSLR... while I wanted to be able to
>take good photographs, I'm certainly not a "keen amateur", nor really is
>photography a "major hobby". As such, whatever I chose would likely be my
>main camera for several years to come. While I probably won't push against
>all the limits, I felt my options would be limited less with the D70.
>
>(d) While sometimes useful/fun, I didn't/don't see the lack of live preview
>nor the ability to take video clips as a major drawback.
>
>(e) If I'm honest, it appealed to the "techno-head" in me a bit...
>
>(f) Although I hadn't intended to spend what the D70 cost, I _could_ afford
>it (and didn't have to justify the extra to anyone).
>
>(g) I'd seen references to dust, but decided that _in_the_main_ it was one
>of those issues where you get the most noise (as in postings to usenet/the
>web) from people for whom it has become an obsession, and that for the
>(nearly) silent majority, it wasn't too big a problem.
>
>Did I make the right decision (for me)? I think so. I'm very happy with
>my D70. I probably don't yet _need_ all the D70 has to offer, but it's
>there if I do, and I think I'm less likely to think "if only my camera
>could..." than with the 8700/8800.
>
>If I _did_ have to make the choice again, I'd probably not make it between
>a 6MP dSLR and an 8MP p&s, as I don't think the extra 2 million p&s pixels
>are probably worth it for the price difference. Instead, I'd probably look
>for a good 4/5MP p&s. There's less compromise from packing so many pixels
>into a small sensor, more portability and a greater price differential.
>



IMO the best deal on a 5MP P&S is the Nikon Coolpix 5400, under $300
after a $200 rebate (until Mar 31)
>HTH
>
>Regards,
>Graham Holden (g-holden AT dircon DOT co DOT uk)


 
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Oliver Costich
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      03-04-2005
On 3 Mar 2005 14:22:52 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Chin Jin Phua wrote:
>> Dang. Thank you for clearing this up. I have been considering a DSLR

>to
>> replace my P&S thinking that since it comes with the LCD, all the
>> convenient features(live preview, AV priority, Spot metering) must be
>> universal. I have had little success with film-SLR in my student's

>day due
>> to limited skills and budget, i'd probably have to reconsider my

>decision
>> since it didn't seem such a technological leap in terms of features

>from
>> film-to-digital SLR.

>
>Big difference between film and digital, you can review your digital
>capture immediately and make adjustments and learn.
>
>Live preview is not important. Immediate review is very important.


With the P&S the live preview of what the actual photo size will be.
Their viewfinders are completely inaccurate rel to the DSLRs.

>
>Live preview is not the same as the capture at all. Since the preview
>has to be moving, the shutter speed, sensitivity and aperture of the
>preview is very different from the actual capture.


 
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bmoag
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      03-04-2005
One more screed:
It is obvious that most writers have limited or no real experience with EVF
cameras: these are a new form factor.
The main drawback as well as the main asset is the EVF as for most people
the zoom lens is of sufficient range and quality. If you do not understand
why the lens diaphragm is limited to f8 then it should not be of any concern
to you whatever.
Also those who have not worked extensively with images created from these
8mp sensors have absolutely no idea how stellar the images can be compared
to 6mp dSLRs.
If you want to see noise, moire and fringing pick up a D70: because I am
used to a lifetime of SLRs I use my D70 more than my Sony 828, but in
general I prefer the image quality from my Sony 828.
The extra 2mps make a real difference.
In fact, if one wants a dSLR I think it unwise to buy anything other than
the new Canon D20 (unfortunately I have a shelf full of Nikon lenses).
The EVF allows one to preview what happens with exposure adjustments prior
to taking the picture, e.g exposing for the highlights or the shadows. This
can be very helpful as well as instructive.
However it can be difficult to track moving objects or to use an EVF in
bright light: one can only guess when to press the shutter button.
EVF cameras handle much more slowly than dSLRS, most of which, like the D70,
handle almost as quickly as film SLRs.
If you do not want an SLR style/size/weight camera do not hesitate to get
the EVF camera of your choice.


 
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Guest
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      03-04-2005
WOW!!!

Thanks for all the info guys!! I've just got in after working nights
expecting maybe two or three replies, and at the risk of repeating my self:
WOW!!

Thank you again everyone. I shall read properly, inwardly digest, compute,
and hopefully (armed with all the info and advice) at last come to a
conclusion and a decision. Maybe!

Sincerely

Darrell Burnett.


 
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David J Taylor
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      03-04-2005
Joseph Miller wrote:
[]
> This is a superb, well though-out post, and I was especially
> interested in the last paragraph. I have been going through exactly
> the same problem: dslr or Nikon 8800. After months of thinking about
> these two, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a Panasonic Z20. What I
> did was review all the shooting I did in the last year with a 5 Mpix
> camera (Canon s500)and ask, what did I wish I had most.


There's a free program called Focalplot at:

http://www.wega2.vandel.nl/

which enables you to analyse the focal lengths used in a series of digital
camera pictures....

Cheers,
David


 
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David J Taylor
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      03-04-2005
Oliver Costich wrote:
[]
> With the P&S the live preview of what the actual photo size will be.
> Their viewfinders are completely inaccurate rel to the DSLRs.


Both consumer DSLRs and the LCD and EVF finders of point-and-shoot cameras
show about 97% of the full frame area. Unless you have depth-of-field
preview, the DSLR finder will also inaccurately portray the depth of
field.

David


 
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Sheldon
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      03-05-2005

> The DSLR will push you to study & learn more technique so it could
> improve your skills in that way. I'm not familiar with high end P&S
> cameras but DSLRs have lots of easily accessible manual controls. My old
> P&S was impractical to adjust things manually, the DSLR is easier to
> adjust.


I was trying to help someone with a high-end Nikon p and s camera take some
macro photos. What a pain, trying to focus manually turning all the knobs
on the camera, and we never did get a good shot. With my D70 I just throw a
macro lens on the camera and turn the focus ring on the lens 'till it's in
focus.


 
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David J Taylor
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      03-05-2005
Sheldon wrote:
[]
> I was trying to help someone with a high-end Nikon p and s camera
> take some macro photos. What a pain, trying to focus manually
> turning all the knobs on the camera, and we never did get a good
> shot. With my D70 I just throw a macro lens on the camera and turn
> the focus ring on the lens 'till it's in focus.


I don't find that on the Nikon 990, 5700 and 8400. The 990 is absolutely
superb for macro and doesn't require an extra lens (as would a DSLR). You
just need to:

- press the focus button until the macro symbol appears (a flower)

- use the middle of the zoom range (the flower changes colour)

- use the auto-focus

With the swivel viewfinder, positioning the camera and framing the subject
can be a lot easier than with a DSLR.

Cheers,
David


 
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