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Nikon D70 dSLR or Nikon CP8800 Non dSLR (Non-CCD Cleaning!!) ??

 
 
Chin Jin Phua
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      03-03-2005

>
> With DSLR's you have to hold the camera to your eye and don't see the
> image until after it's been shot. I used to love the live preview on the
> LCD of my P&S. So easy to see the exposure & composition as I move
> things around. But the DSLR viewfinder is easier to see detail, I used
> to miss little things that couldn't be seen in the LCD like a piece of
> trash in the corner.


So, what exactly is the LCD on DSLR for? Playing with menu and settings?
 
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paul
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      03-03-2005
Chin Jin Phua wrote:

>>With DSLR's you have to hold the camera to your eye and don't see the
>>image until after it's been shot. I used to love the live preview on the
>>LCD of my P&S. So easy to see the exposure & composition as I move
>>things around. But the DSLR viewfinder is easier to see detail, I used
>>to miss little things that couldn't be seen in the LCD like a piece of
>>trash in the corner.

>
>
> So, what exactly is the LCD on DSLR for? Playing with menu and settings?



You can inspect the exposure after shooting, trial & error style. It is
quite a different technique from live preview. Big difference.
 
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Chin Jin Phua
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      03-03-2005
Dang. Thank you for clearing this up. I have been considering a DSLR to
replace my P&S thinking that since it comes with the LCD, all the
convenient features(live preview, AV priority, Spot metering) must be
universal. I have had little success with film-SLR in my student's day due
to limited skills and budget, i'd probably have to reconsider my decision
since it didn't seem such a technological leap in terms of features from
film-to-digital SLR.
In another word, I see the quality of my pictures taken improved moving from
P&S film to P&S digital because of certain features, but I am unlikely to
see an improvement with SLR-DSLR with my current skill. Is that a fair
statement to make?

 
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paul
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      03-03-2005
Chin Jin Phua wrote:

> Dang. Thank you for clearing this up. I have been considering a DSLR to
> replace my P&S thinking that since it comes with the LCD, all the
> convenient features(live preview, AV priority, Spot metering) must be
> universal. I have had little success with film-SLR in my student's day due
> to limited skills and budget, i'd probably have to reconsider my decision
> since it didn't seem such a technological leap in terms of features from
> film-to-digital SLR.
> In another word, I see the quality of my pictures taken improved moving from
> P&S film to P&S digital because of certain features, but I am unlikely to
> see an improvement with SLR-DSLR with my current skill. Is that a fair
> statement to make?



The DSLR will push you to study & learn more technique so it could
improve your skills in that way. I'm not familiar with high end P&S
cameras but DSLRs have lots of easily accessible manual controls. My old
P&S was impractical to adjust things manually, the DSLR is easier to
adjust. The optical viewfinder is very nice, it's just completely
different from LCD shooting. You can get better results but it takes
more work to actually keep track of shutter, aperture, ISO, check the
histogram on the LCD after, more work converting RAW files, larger
files, more expensive lenses. If you don't want all that, the P&S is a
better choice.
 
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Frank ess
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      03-03-2005
Graham Holden wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:48:40 GMT, <> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Could anyone please help me with a difficult decision I can't seem
>> to make?
>>
>> I'm stuck between the Nikon CP8800 and the Nikon D70.
>>

<snippage has occurred>

Graham wrote:

>
> My experience below. Not necessarily the "right" way of doing
> things, nor the right answer for everyone, but just "for information":
>


<snip Graham's cogent summary>

I suggest you take his analysis to heart: he hasn't missed anything of
importance that I can think of.

I will say this: With all the research and generously shared experience
and advice, you may select the wrong camera. The template may fulfill
your intellectual requirements perfectly, but once it is in your hands
you may discover it just plain doesn't fit.

Unless you can find an accommodating local seller, or convince a
well-supplied friend to let you work through his arsenal, it may be a
long, expensive process to arrive at the best compromise.

For my part, I have had to pay the price, but with great joy: the
process has been fun and rewarding and I don't view mistakes or
alternate choices as reflective of character flaws, in contrast to some
folks you might encounter hereabouts.

First significant choice: Nikon CP5700. I liked the idea of a
long-lens/small-package made by a trusted company. It worked fine, and I
even learned to compensate to a degree for the dreaded shutter lag.
Several of the necessary skills and a bunch of luck (and attempts) let
me bring home some good shots among 600 or so from the 2003 Monterey
Historic Automobile Races.
http://www.fototime.com/inv/9CEF2E0211DCF4E

Next try: Added the Nikon CP5000 on recommendation of a professional who
at that time did all his digital work with one. I became addicted to its
19mm equivalent wide angle (with .68x convertor). a good choice, for
sure.

And then: More Pixels Mania. Nikon CP8700, just in time for the 2004
Historics. Once again persistence and luck paid off with a few good
frames.
http://www.fototime.com/inv/83B7FF2C6CE1B1A

Finally, to the dSLR: First and most important, I no longer feel as if I
am fighting the equipment to get the results I know it can return. With
the utility comes responsibility: the photographer can't blame poor
product on the camera. Second, I _know_ the camera-lens combination is
capable of doing the best possible work in its class; once again, no
excuses, what comes out can be top-of-the line. Luck is still a factor,
but definitely a less influential one.
http://www.fototime.com/inv/058FA28C479E2F1

Take into account the images you see are made by a photographer whose
pleasures come as much from the process as from the products. I don't
mind showing rejects and also-rans although I understand and appreciate
the attitude of those who advocate never letting anyone see anything but
your best. I think I am a photographer, just not a totally professional
one.

I still own and enjoy using the non-interchangeable-lens cameras, and
after lugging the 20D and lenses around, especially appreciate their
compact and maneuverable nature. They will put out quality photos, good
enough for almost anyone's needs, and beyond most folks' desires. They
are easy to operate for most folks' purposes, and are capable of
excellence.

The 20D and all dSLRs I know about Increase the likelihood of excellent
output. They do so at the cost of Bulk, Price, Ease-of-use/Convenience,
and Subtlety. You are going to pay, one way or another, for advanced
features and topnotch output.

The reality of lens-changes in the field is probably less onerous in
fact than in psychological terms, excluding the obvious but rare
circumstances (sandstorms, hurricanes, freefall excursions, _etc._). The
one thing I hate about dSLRs is the inevitable moment when the perfect
shot is imminent and the wrong lens is on the body. A quarter-century
ago my gesture at solving this problem was carrying more than one
body-lens-film combination, primed and ready. It was easier then,
comparable Canon items being smaller than current (85-300 excepted) and
less expensive. It didn't always work. I missed the shot of a lifetime
when fully-equipped and in the right place:

" ... one of the best-ever photos that got away, pictures that I didn't
get because of one deficit or another in my repertoire of photographer
behavior: at an early- or mid-80s IMSA event (maybe) I was walking past
the open Goodyear garage toward the 76 station. I had cruised the
paddock/garage area once and was expecting to go to my car and out to
the edge of the course. I was not ready to take a picture, although I
had two loaded cameras hanging on my body.

"Around the corner of the station office came a side-by-side pair of
instantly recognizable and fully suited drivers: eighteen, nineteen, or
twenty years old, they were Michael Andretti on the left, and Al Unser,
Junior, on the right. They were very intent, leaning in toward one
another as they walked. Michael was telling Al Jr. about an on-track
adventure, saying something like, ' ... so I had to give it one of these
.... ' He reared back and demonstrated by extending his arms, gripping an
imaginary steering wheel, and whipping his hands back and forth in small
arcs. Al Jr. nodded understanding. I gaped.

"By the time I got a camera up, they were just two guys walking away.
Kids. Pretending to be race drivers. Only, they were race drivers. Ow."

Any road, be prepared to enjoy the search and decision-making, don't
regard your choice as a wedding vow, and beware the influence of Dreaded
Cognitive Dissonance: it makes grown people throw hissy fits, ordinary
folks rabid, and leaves a bad taste in everyone's experience.


--
Frank ess
"There are some aspects of existence that simply do not yield to
thinking, plain or fancy."


 
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Keith
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      03-03-2005
<> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Could anyone please help me with a difficult decision I can't seem to make?
>
> I'm stuck between the Nikon CP8800 and the Nikon D70.
>
> Here is my difficulty: The whole CCD cleaning thing is putting me off buying
> a dSLR. Every site you look at about cleaning the CCD, you are warned that
> it's difficult to do correctly, you can easily ruin your camera and, you can
> invalidate the warrenty. Besides, I want a camera to take pictures with, not
> to be regularly cleaning it!


The Olympus E-1 and E300 both have an automated cleaning system that
cleans the sensor everytime you switch on the camera, takes decent
pictures too!
 
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Owamanga
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      03-03-2005
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:39:37 +0000, (Keith) wrote:

><> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Could anyone please help me with a difficult decision I can't seem to make?
>>
>> I'm stuck between the Nikon CP8800 and the Nikon D70.
>>
>> Here is my difficulty: The whole CCD cleaning thing is putting me off buying
>> a dSLR. Every site you look at about cleaning the CCD, you are warned that
>> it's difficult to do correctly, you can easily ruin your camera and, you can
>> invalidate the warrenty. Besides, I want a camera to take pictures with, not
>> to be regularly cleaning it!

>
>The Olympus E-1 and E300 both have an automated cleaning system that
>cleans the sensor everytime you switch on the camera, takes decent
>pictures too!


One of the windshield wipers got stuck on my Oly E-1, and I kept on
forgetting to re-fill the sensor-cleaning fluid reservoir (it's too
small really) so I swapped it for a D70.

Cleaning dust of the D70 sensor is easy - just give the camera a good
shake every morning. That does the trick.

<g>

--
Owamanga!
 
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Nick Beard
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      03-03-2005
"You know it makes sense Rodney"


> One of the windshield wipers got stuck on my Oly E-1, and I kept on
> forgetting to re-fill the sensor-cleaning fluid reservoir (it's too
> small really) so I swapped it for a D70.
>
> Cleaning dust of the D70 sensor is easy - just give the camera a good
> shake every morning. That does the trick.



 
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Ben Thomas
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-03-2005
wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Could anyone please help me with a difficult decision I can't seem to make?
>
> I'm stuck between the Nikon CP8800 and the Nikon D70.
>
> Here is my difficulty: The whole CCD cleaning thing is putting me off buying
> a dSLR. Every site you look at about cleaning the CCD, you are warned that
> it's difficult to do correctly, you can easily ruin your camera and, you can
> invalidate the warrenty. Besides, I want a camera to take pictures with, not
> to be regularly cleaning it!
>
> I would be grateful for your thoughts/experiences, AND opinions on the
> CP8800?
>
> Thank you everyone in anticipation of your help.
>
> Darrell Burnett.
>
>


My first few photos from my new D70 had dust spots.

Ben
 
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bj286@scn.org
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      03-03-2005
Chin Jin Phua wrote:
> Dang. Thank you for clearing this up. I have been considering a DSLR

to
> replace my P&S thinking that since it comes with the LCD, all the
> convenient features(live preview, AV priority, Spot metering) must be
> universal. I have had little success with film-SLR in my student's

day due
> to limited skills and budget, i'd probably have to reconsider my

decision
> since it didn't seem such a technological leap in terms of features

from
> film-to-digital SLR.


Big difference between film and digital, you can review your digital
capture immediately and make adjustments and learn.

Live preview is not important. Immediate review is very important.

Live preview is not the same as the capture at all. Since the preview
has to be moving, the shutter speed, sensitivity and aperture of the
preview is very different from the actual capture.

 
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