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Regarding the massive quantities of troll-induced responses the
photography news-groups receive from innocent (if somewhat technically
challenged) netzians on a range of non-photographic subjects I offer
the following:

Google is the entity that allows this person or people to create an
account and then post articles of this type (follow-ups to different
news-groups than the original) with no accountability. So far, they
have done nothing to stop him. As far as I am can see, they have *all*
originated from the googlegroups network.

Having read the many Google complaint threads in
news.admin.net-abuse.policy, and actually followed Google's guidelines
to complaint myself, I have come to the conclusion that using Google's
'complain here' URL is futile.

Google have recently even taken the additional step of hiding the
original poster's IP address, so the usual method of tracking back to
an ISP is not possible. They simply don't care.

I'm not suggesting people don't use the URL avenue, because there is a
very slight chance that someone counts the traffic, but it's highly
unlikely any human actually reads each complaint.

If anyone feels the need to *really* complain to Google, I suggest you
complain by fax, phone or email directly to one of the following PR
staff, based on your geographic location & choice of language - or
send a different email to all of them, your call:

You can fax Google Inc, Mountain View California: (650) 618-1499

Source: http://www.google.com/intl/en/contact/corporate.html

If you feel like faxing them 20 pages of the headers (about 24 hours
worth of the shite we have all to wade through daily) which show that
the original message being replied to was from googlegroups, go ahead.

Or phone/email the following:

Corporate PR
David Krane
+1.650.623.4096


Corporate PR
Steve Langdon
+1.650.623.4950


International PR
Debbie Frost
+1.650.623.4660


UK PR
Ema Linaker
+44.20.7031.3130


Japan PR
Kaori Saito
+81.3.6415.5352


France PR
Myriam Boublil
+33.0.1.56.60.54.40


Germany PR
Stefan Keuchel
+49.40.80.817.9115


Italy PR
Stefano Hesse
+39.02.6203.2200


Also send a copy of any faxes or emails to your ISP (specifically,
your usenet provider), which may provide them ammunition for a future
UDP against Google.

--
Owamanga!

Ask your news provider to filter Google more aggressively. Their
spam/troll floods are well known with admins.

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

> Ask your news provider to filter Google more aggressively. Their
> spam/troll floods are well known with admins.


The problem is these aren't FROM google groups posters. Someone using google
posts to another group and the sets the responces here so we get FLOODED
with legitimate responders who don't realise they are being scammed into
flooding this group. There is no good way to filter this garbage. Obviously
a very childish person with WAY too much time on their hands doing this.
--

Stacey

"Stacey" <> wrote in message news:...
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>
> > Ask your news provider to filter Google more aggressively. Their
> > spam/troll floods are well known with admins.
>
>
> The problem is these aren't FROM google groups posters. Someone using google
> posts to another group and the sets the responces here so we get FLOODED
> with legitimate responders who don't realise they are being scammed into
> flooding this group. There is no good way to filter this garbage.

Nonsense. Google is perfectly capable of disallowing redirected
follow up's. They are also perfectly capable of disallowing Usenet
posting altogether, which is hopefully what will eventually happen
if enough people yell loud enough.

Tom wrote:

> "Stacey" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>>
>> > Ask your news provider to filter Google more aggressively. Their
>> > spam/troll floods are well known with admins.
>>
>>
>> The problem is these aren't FROM google groups posters. Someone using
>> google posts to another group and the sets the responces here so we get
>> FLOODED with legitimate responders who don't realise they are being
>> scammed into flooding this group. There is no good way to filter this
>> garbage.
>
> Nonsense. Google is perfectly capable of disallowing redirected
> follow up's. They are also perfectly capable of disallowing Usenet
> posting altogether, which is hopefully what will eventually happen
> if enough people yell loud enough.

Google doesn't care is the problem. trolls is just more traffic and hits to
their site. It doesn't affect their bottom line and like I said there is
no way for your ISP to filter this stuff as there is nothing about google
in the headers.
--

Stacey

Tom wrote:
>
> ...Google is perfectly capable of disallowing redirected
> follow up's. They are also perfectly capable of disallowing Usenet
> posting altogether, which is hopefully what will eventually happen
> if enough people yell loud enough.

That should be very doable to disallow followup to different groups than
the original posting. It's an odd configuration that would seldom have
legitimate use. For that matter, cross posting could be disabled without
any great suffering.

In the mean time, mozilla allows me to ignore a thread by simply typing
"K" and I never see it again so it's not been that much trouble for me.
Not sure the shortcut for Outlook but it's worth learning.

Would it help if everyone on the forum sent an e-mail to Google saying that
they would not use the Google search site unless something was done to
correct the problem? We would have to also say that we would actively
campaign other forums to do the same. I know most people on the forum
wouldn't follow through, but maybe enough would to make it effective.
Google makes their money when people use their site to navigate to business
sites.

Is this worth a try?

Don

"paul" <> wrote in message
news4udnYCoo97zyZbfRVn-...
> Tom wrote:
>>
>> ...Google is perfectly capable of disallowing redirected
>> follow up's. They are also perfectly capable of disallowing Usenet
>> posting altogether, which is hopefully what will eventually happen
>> if enough people yell loud enough.
>
> That should be very doable to disallow followup to different groups than
> the original posting. It's an odd configuration that would seldom have
> legitimate use. For that matter, cross posting could be disabled without
> any great suffering.
>
> In the mean time, mozilla allows me to ignore a thread by simply typing
> "K" and I never see it again so it's not been that much trouble for me.
> Not sure the shortcut for Outlook but it's worth learning.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:28:29 -0500, Stacey <> wrote:

>Tom wrote:
>
>> "Stacey" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>>>
>>> > Ask your news provider to filter Google more aggressively. Their
>>> > spam/troll floods are well known with admins.
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem is these aren't FROM google groups posters. Someone using
>>> google posts to another group and the sets the responces here so we get
>>> FLOODED with legitimate responders who don't realise they are being
>>> scammed into flooding this group. There is no good way to filter this
>>> garbage.
>>
>> Nonsense. Google is perfectly capable of disallowing redirected
>> follow up's.

Yes, this would by BLINDINGLY simple for them to do. But they refuse.

>>They are also perfectly capable of disallowing Usenet
>> posting altogether, which is hopefully what will eventually happen
>> if enough people yell loud enough.
>
>Google doesn't care is the problem. trolls is just more traffic and hits to
>their site. It doesn't affect their bottom line and like I said there is
>no way for your ISP to filter this stuff as there is nothing about google
>in the headers.

Ah, but they do have something in common:

References: < .com>

Google's name is on every reply. They are the source of the evil.

Until it's fixed, killfile the whole damn network.

--
Owamanga!

Sorry, f-up ignored since I don't read rec.photo.digital

Stacey <> writes:

> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>
>> Ask your news provider to filter Google more aggressively. Their
>> spam/troll floods are well known with admins.
>
>
> The problem is these aren't FROM google groups posters. Someone using google
> posts to another group and the sets the responces here so we get FLOODED
> with legitimate responders who don't realise they are being scammed into
> flooding this group. There is no good way to filter this garbage.

That depends on your newsreader. I now kill all messages which are
posted via googlenews, and all messages which refer to another message
posted via googlenews. The effect is dramatic. I will miss one or the
other reasonable article posted via googlenews, but it appears as if
this is a rather small number.

> Obviously
> a very childish person with WAY too much time on their hands doing this.

Yes, and google is happily accepting it.

Matthias
> --
>
> Stacey

Don Dunlap wrote:
> Would it help if everyone on the forum sent an e-mail to Google saying that
> they would not use the Google search site unless something was done to
> correct the problem? We would have to also say that we would actively
> campaign other forums to do the same. I know most people on the forum
> wouldn't follow through, but maybe enough would to make it effective.
> Google makes their money when people use their site to navigate to business
> sites.
>
> Is this worth a try?

I sent a complaint and suggested they block posts that have follow-ups only set
to groups other than the group the original post was posted to.

--
--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

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