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Fujifilm photo papers

 
 
Alfred Molon
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      01-20-2005
I was told that Fujifilm Professional glossy and matte are better papers
than Fuji Crystal Archive, which is a standard paper of the "entry
level" class. Is this true ?

The lab is using a Fuji Lightjet 500 printer and guarantees a lifespan
of 70 years for the colours. Is this realistic ?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
 
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Bart van der Wolf
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      01-20-2005

"Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
SNIP
> The lab is using a Fuji Lightjet 500 printer and guarantees
> a lifespan of 70 years for the colours. Is this realistic ?


The Cymbolic Lightjets are not Fuji printers, AFAIK the brand is owned
by OCE.
It prints on photochemical paper, so depending on paper and
processing, and viewing/keeping conditions, the print's lifespan is
hard to nail exactly. Besides the deterioration is gradual, so where
one draws the line is also arbitrary. So let's say it has similar
keeping characteristics as all photochemical prints.

Bart

 
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Alfred Molon
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      01-20-2005
In article <41ef977c$0$6203$(E-Mail Removed)4all.nl>, Bart van der Wolf
says...
>
> > The lab is using a Fuji Lightjet 500 printer and guarantees
> > a lifespan of 70 years for the colours. Is this realistic ?

>
> The Cymbolic Lightjets are not Fuji printers, AFAIK the brand is owned
> by OCE.
> It prints on photochemical paper, so depending on paper and
> processing, and viewing/keeping conditions, the print's lifespan is
> hard to nail exactly. Besides the deterioration is gradual, so where
> one draws the line is also arbitrary. So let's say it has similar
> keeping characteristics as all photochemical prints.


I thought the Lightjet 500 was made by Fuji.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
 
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Bill
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      01-20-2005
>I was told that Fujifilm Professional glossy and matte are better
papers
>than Fuji Crystal Archive, which is a standard paper of the "entry
>level" class. Is this true ?


Most of the pros using the high end labs like Calypso and West Coast
Imaging use the Crystal Archive paper, which comes in matte, glossy and
super-gloss, so perhaps these are the same papers?


>The lab is using a Fuji Lightjet 500 printer ...


It's not a Fuji printer, as Bart pointed out it's made by Cymbolic
Sciences.

> and guarantees a lifespan
> of 70 years for the colours. Is this realistic ?


They don't "guarantee" anything, it's just an estimate based on
accelerated testing results ... when Wilhelm first tested Fuji Crystal
Archive with the laser printers the initial print life estimate to HIS
standards was 74 years. This was several years ago ... subsequent and
on-going tests caused him to drop this number to 40 years, though for
obvious reasons many labs still give out the old number. You should
read the caveats on his site to see what this means but basically 40
years is very good for traditional prints (he rated Ilfochromes at 29
years, most of the Kodak Type-C and Ektacolor processes around 18-22
years) but the better pigment inkjet printers are now rated about twice
the FCA papers now. I've compared the various LightJet papers to the
best Epson 9600 papers (same image from the same lab) and the LJ images
look slightly better to me, but only slightly. Best thing you can do
is test them yourself, some of the better pro labs offer inexpensive
(or free if they think you're a potential customer) sample packs.
Nothing like comparing side-by-side to see which "look" you prefer.
Bill

 
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Alfred Molon
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      01-20-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed). com>, Bill
says...
> >I was told that Fujifilm Professional glossy and matte are better

> papers
> >than Fuji Crystal Archive, which is a standard paper of the "entry
> >level" class. Is this true ?

>
> Most of the pros using the high end labs like Calypso and West Coast
> Imaging use the Crystal Archive paper, which comes in matte, glossy and
> super-gloss, so perhaps these are the same papers?


Not according to what they told me. I asked if they were using Fuji
Crystal Archive Professional glossy and matte. They replied that the
paper they use is Fujifilm Professional glossy and matte and that
Crystal Archive is "a standard paper of the entry level class".

By the way, they (www.fotokasten.de) use the eciRGB colour space. Never
heard about this one.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
 
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Bill Hilton
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      01-21-2005
>> Most of the pros using the high end labs like Calypso and West Coast
>> Imaging use the Crystal Archive paper, which comes in matte, glossy

and
>> super-gloss, so perhaps these are the same papers?


> Alfred replied ...
>
>Not according to what they told me. I asked if they were using Fuji
>Crystal Archive Professional glossy and matte. They replied that the
>paper they use is Fujifilm Professional glossy and matte and that
>Crystal Archive is "a standard paper of the entry level class".


Well, they should know what they're using I guess ... here are links to
two of the best USA labs, the ones the high end pros like Dykinga and
RG Ketchum and Galen Rowell's gallery use for their prints, where they
say they use Crystal Archive papers from Fuji ...
http://www.calypsoinc.com/ then 'Lightjet prints' then 'Professional'
to see a list of the papers they use, with a "Fujicolor Crystal Archive
Paper' logo ... they say it's "Fuji Crystal Archive-Type" material.

Or this lab, which uses a different laser printer (Chromira) but the
same papers ...
http://www.westcoastimaging.com/wci/.../colormain.htm
where WCI mentions printing with Fuji Crystal Archive ... or see the
second Q on this FAQ ...
http://www.westcoastimaging.com/wci/...qchromira.html

> By the way, they (www.fotokasten.de) use the eciRGB colour space.
> Never heard about this one.


Maybe it's not a color space but a printer profile? Most likely they
profile their printer with the specific paper they're using and create
a custom profile. At both the labs mentioned above you can download
their profiles and soft-proof to them, and they also give you a
discount if you do all the prep work, including converting your file to
their profile so they just dump it in the printer.

The WCI guys are good about answering questions, maybe ask them if they
are familiar with "Fujifilm Professional glossy and matte" paper (and
ask if they are using "a standard paper of the entry level class"
and if it's different than what they call Crystal Archive. I would
guess it is the same paper but I'm often wrong ...

Bill

 
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Bill Hilton
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      01-21-2005
>> Alfred wrote
>>
>> By the way, they (www.fotokasten.de) use the eciRGB colour space.
>> Never heard about this one.


>From: "Bill Hilton" http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
>
>Maybe it's not a color space but a printer profile?


Alfred, I Googled 'eci RGB' and you are right, it's a working space and not, as
I guessed, a printer profile. "ECI" stands for "European Colour Initiative"
.... this link has a lot of interesting (to a color geek anyway) data on the
spec ... http://www.eci.org/eci/en/044_working_colour_spaces.php

I downloaded the profile and ran it thru Color Think ... it's a bit wider gamut
than AdobeRGB in the reds and tighter (smaller gamut) in the blues. It's also
much wider than the Calypso LightJet 5000 Glossy profile. Interesting.

Bill


 
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Alfred Molon
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      01-21-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bill Hilton
says...

> Alfred, I Googled 'eci RGB' and you are right, it's a working space and not, as
> I guessed, a printer profile. "ECI" stands for "European Colour Initiative"
> ... this link has a lot of interesting (to a color geek anyway) data on the
> spec ... http://www.eci.org/eci/en/044_working_colour_spaces.php
>
> I downloaded the profile and ran it thru Color Think ... it's a bit wider gamut
> than AdobeRGB in the reds and tighter (smaller gamut) in the blues. It's also
> much wider than the Calypso LightJet 5000 Glossy profile. Interesting.


Yep, it's a colour space. The good thing about the fotokasten.de lab is
that at least you know what colour profile they use, and thus get
dependable results.

By the way, couldn't it be that Crystal Archive denotes a full family of
photo papers, ranging from entry level to professional ?

Or perhaps here in Europe Fuji markets the papers with a different name?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
 
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RSD99
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      01-21-2005
"Here in the USA" you can get (a little) additional information from the
"Fuji Professional" site.

http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epa...ductsPaper.jsp

And you are correct, many international companies market their products
with different names and trademarks for each country or region. I do not
know specifically about Fuji, but Canon sure does!






"Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
>
> Yep, it's a colour space. The good thing about the fotokasten.de lab is
> that at least you know what colour profile they use, and thus get
> dependable results.
>
> By the way, couldn't it be that Crystal Archive denotes a full family of
> photo papers, ranging from entry level to professional ?
>
> Or perhaps here in Europe Fuji markets the papers with a different name?
> --
>
> Alfred Molon
> ------------------------------
> Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
> Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/



 
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Bill Hilton
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      01-21-2005
>From: Alfred Molon
>
>By the way, couldn't it be that Crystal Archive denotes a full family of
>photo papers, ranging from entry level to professional ?


Looks that way ... on this UK site click the drop-down to see a list of
different "Fuji Crystal Archive" papers, from what looks like an entry level
one (perhaps what the mini-labs use) to several "Fuji Crystal Archive
Professional" papers with different finishes (what the high end labs like
Calypso and WCI use). There's also a listing at the bottom for what the lab
you mention may be using, where there are two non-Crystal Archive professional
papers listed. So far as I know Wilhelm has only tested the Crystal Archive
papers.

http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/technical/folder.pl?id=4 ... you can probably find
something similar on the German site.

>Or perhaps here in Europe Fuji markets the papers with a different name?


Here's a Fuji German site with a press release from a year ago of a new finish
"Fuji Crystal Archive" paper so they use that name to some extent... you can
probably find the equivalent to the UK site given above with names for all the
papers.

Bill


 
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