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Canon A70, A75, S230 can record 3 minutes video at 640 x 480 withhacked firmware

 
 
cambium
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      01-08-2005
Tom, DV is compressed much lower I think. In this link, which I think is
accurate, it says 3.5 mb/second for DV.

http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/dv_format.htm

So, 1.87 (or 2.1 if you extrapolate to the DV frame size) is not too bad,
but not quite as good as DV.


"Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:iiCDd.2274$8l.1883@pd7tw1no...
> > I have the Sony VX2000 which is an excellent DV camera with three

sensors.
> > Of course there are other DVs that are less quality but almost the same

if
> > you look at the resulting video.
> >
> > How about the S1 IS - how would you compare that (highest res) video to

DV?
> > I know it is only VGA and DV is a little bigger - but other than that.

>
> The S1's bitrate is 1.87Mb/s, atrociously low compared to DV's
> 15Mb/s, but the results are surprisingly good. There are some
> exceptions of course, such as very fast moving scenes where blur
> is apparent.
>
> Also, audio is recorded at 22kHz 16-bit mono instead of 44kHz
> 16-bit stereo.
>
> > (I meant to address the group, Tom)
> >
> >
> >
> > "Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > "cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

> > news:8UqDd.732975$nl.244585@pd7tw3no...
> > > > All your points make good sense - I agree it can't be the reason I

was
> > > > told.
> > > >
> > > > So... why can the Canon S1 IS take unlimited (to card max) high

quality
> > > > video, while the Nikon 8080 is limited to one minute? I can see no

> > obvious
> > > > explanation.
> > >
> > > The S1 is not unlimited. Max is either 1GB or 1 hour, whichever
> > > comes first. At full quality and frame rate it can take an 8-9 minute
> > > clip before it reaches 1GB and stops.
> > >
> > > Sure would like to find a way to increase that to 2GB.
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Tom
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      01-08-2005
"cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:IAFDd.5011$8l.2099@pd7tw1no...
> Tom, DV is compressed much lower I think. In this link, which I think is
> accurate, it says 3.5 mb/second for DV.
>
> http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/dv_format.htm
>
> So, 1.87 (or 2.1 if you extrapolate to the DV frame size) is not too bad,
> but not quite as good as DV.


No, the difference is megaBYTES as opposed to megaBITS.
The S1's bitrate is 1.87 megaBITS/s. DV is 3.5 megaBYTES/s.
DV is almost 16x the bitrate of the S1.


 
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Tom
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      01-08-2005
"Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:IAFDd.5011$8l.2099@pd7tw1no...
> > Tom, DV is compressed much lower I think. In this link, which I think is
> > accurate, it says 3.5 mb/second for DV.
> >
> > http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/dv_format.htm
> >
> > So, 1.87 (or 2.1 if you extrapolate to the DV frame size) is not too bad,
> > but not quite as good as DV.

>
> No, the difference is megaBYTES as opposed to megaBITS.
> The S1's bitrate is 1.87 megaBITS/s. DV is 3.5 megaBYTES/s.
> DV is almost 16x the bitrate of the S1.


Cambium, gosh I'm embarassed.. You're absolutely
correct. I checked properties on my S1's AVI files and
took Kb to mean kilobits. But it is actually kilobytes.

You're 100% correct. Sorry.


 
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cambium
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      01-08-2005
You had me convinced in the last post but one, so I'm glad you double
checked it and set us both straight.

So then, when you play the Canon S1 video on your TV, how is the experience?
Is it noticeably inferior, or fairly close to DV?

Video cameras and digital still cameras are converging on this point. At
some point way in the future we'll get video at extremely high resolution,
so that any grabbed frame might be a great still shot. Being able to choose
from any of 30 shots per second is a terrific advantage over normal still
shots.


"Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:IAFDd.5011$8l.2099@pd7tw1no...
> > > Tom, DV is compressed much lower I think. In this link, which I think

is
> > > accurate, it says 3.5 mb/second for DV.
> > >
> > > http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/dv_format.htm
> > >
> > > So, 1.87 (or 2.1 if you extrapolate to the DV frame size) is not too

bad,
> > > but not quite as good as DV.

> >
> > No, the difference is megaBYTES as opposed to megaBITS.
> > The S1's bitrate is 1.87 megaBITS/s. DV is 3.5 megaBYTES/s.
> > DV is almost 16x the bitrate of the S1.

>
> Cambium, gosh I'm embarassed.. You're absolutely
> correct. I checked properties on my S1's AVI files and
> took Kb to mean kilobits. But it is actually kilobytes.
>
> You're 100% correct. Sorry.
>
>



 
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Tom
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      01-08-2005
"cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:e3KDd.7331$8l.5195@pd7tw1no...
> You had me convinced in the last post but one, so I'm glad you double
> checked it and set us both straight.
>
> So then, when you play the Canon S1 video on your TV, how is the experience?
> Is it noticeably inferior, or fairly close to DV?


Close, but artifacts become apparent in scenes where a subject
is moving extremely fast.

> Video cameras and digital still cameras are converging on this point. At
> some point way in the future we'll get video at extremely high resolution,
> so that any grabbed frame might be a great still shot. Being able to choose
> from any of 30 shots per second is a terrific advantage over normal still
> shots.
>
>
> "Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > "cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

> news:IAFDd.5011$8l.2099@pd7tw1no...
> > > > Tom, DV is compressed much lower I think. In this link, which I think

> is
> > > > accurate, it says 3.5 mb/second for DV.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/dv_format.htm
> > > >
> > > > So, 1.87 (or 2.1 if you extrapolate to the DV frame size) is not too

> bad,
> > > > but not quite as good as DV.
> > >
> > > No, the difference is megaBYTES as opposed to megaBITS.
> > > The S1's bitrate is 1.87 megaBITS/s. DV is 3.5 megaBYTES/s.
> > > DV is almost 16x the bitrate of the S1.

> >
> > Cambium, gosh I'm embarassed.. You're absolutely
> > correct. I checked properties on my S1's AVI files and
> > took Kb to mean kilobits. But it is actually kilobytes.
> >
> > You're 100% correct. Sorry.
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Jukka Laurila
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      01-08-2005
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:51:46 -0500, tomcas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Canon A70, A75, S230 can record 3 minutes video at 640 x 480 after
> applying this firmware hack. Without it you are limited to 30 seconds.
> I just flashed the firmware on my A70 after tweaking the standard
> factory firmware file per the instructions and it worked like a champ.
> No dropped frames or filled buffer with a standard 256MB SanDisk.
> Thanks jplauril.


You're welcome

Also, I just added the Pro1 version there. Easy as pie - the code was
the same as in all the other cameras.
 
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tomcas
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      01-08-2005
Jukka Laurila wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:51:46 -0500, tomcas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Canon A70, A75, S230 can record 3 minutes video at 640 x 480 after
>>applying this firmware hack. Without it you are limited to 30 seconds.
>>I just flashed the firmware on my A70 after tweaking the standard
>>factory firmware file per the instructions and it worked like a champ.
>>No dropped frames or filled buffer with a standard 256MB SanDisk.
>>Thanks jplauril.

>
>
> You're welcome
>
> Also, I just added the Pro1 version there. Easy as pie - the code was
> the same as in all the other cameras.

Jukka
You are the man. Thanks for the update.
 
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Dave Martindale
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      01-08-2005
"Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

>The S1's bitrate is 1.87Mb/s, atrociously low compared to DV's
>15Mb/s, but the results are surprisingly good. There are some
>exceptions of course, such as very fast moving scenes where blur
>is apparent.


Those numbers are not directly comparable. DV is 25 Mb/s (not 15), but
that's using motion JPEG encoding where each frame is moderately
compressed independently of frames before and after. This has the
advantage that it works no matter how fast the samera is panning, and
how much change there is between adjacent frames, but it's not very high
compression.

The S1 almost certainly uses either MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 compression, where
similarities between adjacent frames are compressed as well. This
yields much higher compression for the same image quality. (DVDs are
MPEG-2, so quite high quality is possible given enough bit rate). But
this can have problems when successive frames are too different.

Dave
 
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Dave Martindale
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      01-08-2005
"cambium" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

>So... why can the Canon S1 IS take unlimited (to card max) high quality
>video, while the Nikon 8080 is limited to one minute? I can see no obvious
>explanation.


One possible explanation: compression differences.

Most Canon cameras also have record time limitations for their video
mode. These cameras record motion JPEG video, where each frame is
compressed individually. The data rate for this is pretty high, and the
cameras probably can't depend on writing the data fast enough to a
memory card, so the data goes into the camera's buffer memory. The size
of this memory sets the maximum clip length. The Nikon is probably
similar.

The S1, on the other hand, must use MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 compression to get
the video data rate it uses for its videos. This requires extra
hardware to do the compression in real time, but results in a much lower
data rate that the camera *can* write to the memory card as it shoots.
So the clip length limit is 1 GB, not limited by the internal memory
size.

Dave
 
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Alf92
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      01-21-2005
Jukka Laurila a dit ša :

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:51:46 -0500, tomcas
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Canon A70, A75, S230 can record 3 minutes video at 640 x 480 after
>> applying this firmware hack. Without it you are limited to 30
>> seconds. I just flashed the firmware on my A70 after tweaking the
>> standard factory firmware file per the instructions and it worked
>> like a champ. No dropped frames or filled buffer with a standard
>> 256MB SanDisk. Thanks jplauril.

>
> You're welcome
>
> Also, I just added the Pro1 version there. Easy as pie - the code was
> the same as in all the other cameras.


Hello !
Why don't you offer directly the download of those Firmwares ?
It would be easier for us !
May be troubles with Canon ?

--
Regards,
Alf92


 
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