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Cropped picture file size larger than original?

 
 
Videot
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      10-19-2004
I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might resample
upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware isn't the
best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted would
came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture were
cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to what's
going on?


--
Thanks in advance


 
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Jürgen Eidt
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      10-19-2004
"Videot" <(E-Mail Removed)> schrieb
>I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
> Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
> original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
> settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might resample
> upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware isn't
> the
> best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted would
> came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture were
> cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to what's
> going on?

Quite simple, the crop was not loss less. The cropped image was resaved with
a higher quality level as the picture was taken, which results in a larger
file size.
You should use the loss less crop developed by Guido Vollbeding. Have a look
at http://jpegclub.org/losslessapps.html, there are several to choose from.

--
Regards
Jürgen

http://cpicture.de/en


 
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Videot
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      10-19-2004
I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that it
might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.


"Jürgen Eidt" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Videot" <(E-Mail Removed)> schrieb
> >I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
> > Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
> > original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
> > settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might

resample
> > upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware isn't
> > the
> > best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted

would
> > came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture

were
> > cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to

what's
> > going on?

> Quite simple, the crop was not loss less. The cropped image was resaved

with
> a higher quality level as the picture was taken, which results in a larger
> file size.
> You should use the loss less crop developed by Guido Vollbeding. Have a

look
> at http://jpegclub.org/losslessapps.html, there are several to choose

from.
>
> --
> Regards
> Jürgen
>
> http://cpicture.de/en
>
>



 
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Christopher Pollard
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      10-19-2004
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:06:54 +0800, "Videot" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
>have ever seen this.


try looking at the camera's settings. If it's set to the lowest quality, then
the editing software might well save it at a higher quality setting.

Do some experiments, try saving as a TIF and cropping that.


--
Chris Pollard


CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
 
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Jürgen Eidt
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      10-19-2004
"Videot" <(E-Mail Removed)> schrieb
>I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
> have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
> of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that
> it
> might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.

Of course it always depends on the workflow. If you crop a JPEG and then
adjust levels, do some sharpening or other touch ups you don't need a loss
less crop.
You always have to keep in mind that loss less crop aligns the upper left
corner on a grid (the grid size is for most camera JPEGs 8x16 pixels,
depending on the color subsampling).

--
Regards
Jürgen

http://cpicture.de/en


 
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Guido Vollbeding
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      10-19-2004
Videot wrote:
>
> I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
> have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
> of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that it
> might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.


You must recognize that the commercial software vendors are usually
not interested in optimal JPEG processing, and many of them are
incapable understanding and handling JPEG properly.
The best JPEG features are currently ignored and unused by the
commercial market. This has reasons. For example, some vendors
want to sell you other image coding technologies (e.g. JPEG2000)
which are really inferior to common JPEG. They tell you otherwise,
of course, so take care, this is a hoax!

Regards
Guido
 
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AusDigi
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      10-19-2004

"Guido Vollbeding" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> You must recognize that the commercial software vendors are usually
> not interested in optimal JPEG processing, and many of them are
> incapable understanding and handling JPEG properly.
> The best JPEG features are currently ignored and unused by the
> commercial market. This has reasons. For example, some vendors
> want to sell you other image coding technologies (e.g. JPEG2000)
> which are really inferior to common JPEG. They tell you otherwise,
> of course, so take care, this is a hoax!


Its nice to see a couple of jpeg pioneers like yourself on here, espousing
valuable advice too.


 
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Guido Vollbeding
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      10-19-2004
AusDigi wrote:
>
> Its nice to see a couple of jpeg pioneers like yourself on here, espousing
> valuable advice too.


Sometimes, when the mistakes happening are too large, the "pioneers"
must stand up and appoint the common errors.
However, my hopes for correcting the errors are not great at the
moment - our world is full of errors which are much more horrible
and yet unsolved, although the solutions would be rather simple.
But the dark forces against such solutions are still strong.

Regards
Guido
 
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Keith Sheppard
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      10-19-2004
As the author of a freeware photo manipulating package I found this very
interesting. I was able to find some open source lossless jpeg rotation
code which I have incorporated into my software, but I still resample after
cropping.

Are you aware of any open source lossless cropping algorithms? My software
is a hobby project so I can't afford to pay for source.

Regards
Keith


 
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Guido Vollbeding
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      10-19-2004
Keith Sheppard wrote:
>
> As the author of a freeware photo manipulating package I found this very
> interesting. I was able to find some open source lossless jpeg rotation
> code which I have incorporated into my software, but I still resample after
> cropping.
>
> Are you aware of any open source lossless cropping algorithms? My software
> is a hobby project so I can't afford to pay for source.


Your basic source of JPEG implementation is the Independent JPEG Group
software available from http://www.ijg.org .

More advanced JPEG feature implementations you can find at http://jpegclub.org .
This is also kind of a "hobby project", so I can't afford to invest too
much time in it currently - there is more potential, but the actual
results are remarkable.

If you know that JPEG operates on separate transformation blocks,
the *idea* of lossless cropping is rather trivial, though the
actual implementation is somewhat more demanding. You can find
it in and use it with my jpegtran croppatch code.

The idea of lossless JPEG rotation is not so trivial - you will find
the open implementation source code in the actual IJG v6b version.

The greatest discovery since JPEG introduction in 1992 so far are
the new scaling features - because they are based on a fundamental
DCT property which is not widely known and utilized today and was
not known to the original JPEG authors. The scaling features are
just a direct utilization of this property, but there is more
potential.

Regards
Guido
 
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