«

> For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity.
> (p51)


This is the same on the d70 and 10d and possibly 20d too. within the
100-1600 grain (noise) is acceptable. To get 3200 you have to boost the
gain and noise is far more noticeable. Its basically liking having a red
line on you tachometer. Yes the car will rev that far but we rather you
didn't and won't accept any liability if you do.

as a FreeLunch.--

Mr Jessop wrote:

>>For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity.
>>(p51)
>
>
>
> This is the same on the d70 and 10d and possibly 20d too. within the
> 100-1600 grain (noise) is acceptable. To get 3200 you have to boost the
> gain and noise is far more noticeable. Its basically liking having a red
> line on you tachometer. Yes the car will rev that far but we rather you
> didn't and won't accept any liability if you do.

It is, IMO, silly to have to access it via special settings. It is what it is
and it is no different than plopping in a roll of 3200 film.

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-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Alan Browne choreographed a chorus line of high-kicking electrons to
spell out:

> Mr Jessop wrote:
>
>>>For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200
>>>sensitivity. (p51)
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the same on the d70 and 10d and possibly 20d too. within the
>> 100-1600 grain (noise) is acceptable. To get 3200 you have to boost
>> the gain and noise is far more noticeable. Its basically liking
>> having a red line on you tachometer. Yes the car will rev that far
>> but we rather you didn't and won't accept any liability if you do.
>
> It is, IMO, silly to have to access it via special settings. It is
> what it is and it is no different than plopping in a roll of 3200
> film.

It's usually rationalized that Nikon/Canon don't want newbies
complaining to them about the noise if their cameras get set to ISO 3200
and they forget about it...

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| __)|| | |(_)| \ *This* is progress?" --J. Shinal

S Lee wrote:

> Alan Browne choreographed a chorus line of high-kicking electrons to

>>It is, IMO, silly to have to access it via special settings. It is
>>what it is and it is no different than plopping in a roll of 3200
>>film.
>
>
> It's usually rationalized that Nikon/Canon don't want newbies
> complaining to them about the noise if their cameras get set to ISO 3200
> and they forget about it...

Like I said: "silly" ... so I understand Nikon doing it, but Canon and Minolta?
Jeez, they're losing it.

Anyway, no real big deal. Just set it once and be done with it.

Cheers,
Alan



--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Alan Browne <> wrote in message news:<Qdwcd.3244$>.. .
> Tom wrote:
>
> > "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in message news:<WKgcd.9864$ k>...
> >
> >>"Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
> >>news:...
> >>
> >>>
> >>>This is cool:
> >>>
> >>
> >>For our current line of lenses, contact your Konica
> >>
> >>>Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
> >>>Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a
> >>>macro release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range
> >>>limiters set to a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The
> >>>focus range limiter
> >>
> >>Have no idea coupling or compatibility wise why this would be. However
> >>handheld macro would be asking alot of any anti shake system so its back to
> >>tripod. Tripod use has been covered earlier. I beleive the incompatibility
> >>is deliberate rather than a shortcoming of the design.
> >
> >
> > Some early Minolta AF lenses (I think first generation) had macro
> > switches to allow close focusing (about 1:4 magnification). When
> > switched to macro, AF is turned off. The true macro lens (100 f/2.
> > does not have that switch. Later zoom lenses also don't have that
> > switch and Af stays active down to the close focusing distance.
>
> The 100 f/2.8 macro does have a focus range limiter and this is probably an
> issue wrt the above exerpt.

Alan,
I agree with you. I use mine mostly with the range limiter in 'full'
position. I haven't had problems with it hunting. Although I usually
use manual focus for macro, I've also been successful when handholding
to set my film 7 to continuous AF. I found that in continuous the 7
can keep up with my rocking back and forth. Also with the film 7,
I'll use the AF/MF button on the back if the AF does start to hunt.
Then I press the button; the camera switches to MF; and I'll manually
focus. Once I'm in focus, I release the button; the camera switches
back to AF and tracks if I rock.

Tom

Alan Browne <> wrote in message news:<W8wcd.34392$> ...
> Magnus W wrote:
>
> > It uses micro gyros.
> >
> > The system needs exact info on focal length and focus distance to be able
> > to compensate correctly. This means /true/ focal length, not the values
> > printed on the lens. The camera checks the focusing range all the way to
> > infinity at startup (that is also in the manual) to build a focus distance
> > table used with the internal D encoder so D lenses aren't needed -- this
> > check is why focus limiters and macro switches can't be used, by the way.
> >
> > To get this info right, the camera must have a database of parameters of
> > all pre-D lenses inside it. It is extremely unlikely that this database
> > will contain non-Minolta items.
>
> Source Magnus? I'm not sure at all how pre-D lenses would transmit their FL and
> zoom pos to the camera, never mind their "ID", yet the A/S will work with almost
> all pre-D lenses.

All my AF lenses transmit their actual focal length to the camera.
The exposure data recording does show this. In the Magic Lantern book
"Classic Minolta Cameras", the sections on the i series cameras does
state that Minolta zooms have data on up to 12 zoom positions that are
transmitted to the camera for use in "P" setting of desired shutter
speed. I assume the software in the 7D will deal with the effect, if
any, of the 1.5 crop factor. There was also some info on one of the
KM sites that stated that FL and magnification were taken into account
for AS.

The focusing distance info for non-D lenses (at least to the exent
necessary for the scene recognition expert programming (see the
Portrait Card instructions in the files section of the Yahoo Minolta
group for typical mags it uses) comes from a distance encoder in the
body (Maxxum 7 brochure, and various Hove books on the si and xi
cameras). The dance that the lens does when mounted with AF mode on,
or when the camera is turned on (again if AF mode is on) probably has
some calibration purpose. The comment in the manual that you quote
below seems to confirm this.

I think I disagree with Magus on where the database of lens parameters
is stored. He says the camera, but I think it is in each lens.
Reason? - Because my 24-105 lens was designed after my 700si or my
XTsi were made. But that lens works correctly with both of those
cameras to do the "P" mode scene recognition and subject program
exposure settings. However, my Tokina and Sigma lenses don't with any
of my 14-seg metering cameras. (This has to do with setting the
desired aperture and DOF for the type of shot, not for getting a
corect exposure). So the data needed for the camera to know the
focusing position of my 24-105 (or any other newly designed lens)
probably has to be in the lens chip. I think that there is camera
specific calibration data that customizes each lens for each model
camera (for example, changing camera motor/AF drive ratios).

>
> The note on page 19 is bizarre:
>
> "Each time the camera is turned on, it automatically
> focuses the lens to the infinity position, even in manual
> focus. This operation is necessary to ensure proper
> exposures."
>
> This bothers me as I'm almost always in manual focus... will it override that
> and do this function regardless? (rhetorical).

Cameras that use 14-seg metering want to know focusing distance. This
calibration lets the camera distance encoder work (through the AF
drive, which in the 7 and 7D remains connected to the lens even in
manual focus).

>
> Exposure Comp: see page 48. Nice having a bargraph showing both exp-comp and
> flash comp on a single graph.
>
> For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity. (p51)
>
> Another nit: no viewfinder shutter to block back light getting in. I meter
> manually most of the time, so no big bother but another cost saver by K-M.
>
> p76 (p11 of 2nd pdf file) is ambiguous as to the power level setting. Does that
> refer to the built in flash only? The 5600HS is manually controllable to 1/32
> (not 1/16).
>
> The "Smooth focus" described on 116 (51 of pdf 2) is, er, novel. Strange >too.

"Smooth focus" was first implemented on the film 7. As noted above,
the drive coupler (screwdriver) remains connected to the lens when in
manual focus. This does add some resistance to the manual focusing
ring. For some undamped lenses, this is nice. But when a TC is
added, the gear ratio of the TC added to the gear ratio of some lenses
cam make the manual focusing ring very stiff. It is almost impossible
to turn the focusing ring on my Sigma 135-400 with a tamron 1.4xTC
when in manual focus. Smooth focusing disconnects the drive coupler
removing the extra resistance, but it also affects the ability of the
14-seg meter.


>
> Ah! They finally say "PC cord" on p 119! (Sheesh!)
>
> Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
> Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)
>
> Cheers,
> Alan

Alan Browne wrote:


> Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
> Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)
>

Could be the bain of some shutterbugs, too.


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Alan Browne <> wrote in
news:W8wcd.34392$:

> Magnus W wrote:
>
>> It uses micro gyros.
>>
>> The system needs exact info on focal length and focus distance to be
>> able to compensate correctly. This means /true/ focal length, not the
>> values printed on the lens. The camera checks the focusing range all
>> the way to infinity at startup (that is also in the manual) to build
>> a focus distance table used with the internal D encoder so D lenses
>> aren't needed -- this check is why focus limiters and macro switches
>> can't be used, by the way.
>>
>> To get this info right, the camera must have a database of parameters
>> of all pre-D lenses inside it. It is extremely unlikely that this
>> database will contain non-Minolta items.
>
> Source Magnus? I'm not sure at all how pre-D lenses would transmit
> their FL and zoom pos to the camera, never mind their "ID", yet the
> A/S will work with almost all pre-D lenses.

Well, I did write the info about how this is accomplished above too -- the
7 (and D7D) has a built-in D encoder. It is attached to the screwdriver AF
coupler and is not decoupled even in MF mode (if you are not using the
"smooth manual focus" mode, note, not STF mode). The D7D will search to
infinity at startup (this is a first for a Minolta camera). This is
quite obviously done to count the revolutions from close focus to infinity,
so the camera can determine D info without D lenses. Theoretically it
wouldn't have to search in this way when using "proper" D lenses.

> The note on page 19 is bizarre:
>
> "Each time the camera is turned on, it automatically
> focuses the lens to the infinity position, even in manual
> focus. This operation is necessary to ensure proper
> exposures."

This is exactly the reason. Not bizarre but quite clever.

> This bothers me as I'm almost always in manual focus... will it
> override that and do this function regardless? (rhetorical).

Yes, but it will switch back to MF after doing its search, and the reason
is that you won't get D info for the camera's functions if this is not
done.

> Another nit: no viewfinder shutter to block back light getting in. I
> meter manually most of the time, so no big bother but another cost
> saver by K-M.

No 7 class camera has ever had this. In fact, only two AF Minoltas have had
it; the 9000 and 9.

> The "Smooth focus" described on 116 (51 of pdf 2) is, er, novel.
> Strange too.

Neither novel nor new. The 7 has it too. The reason is that internal
systems are still attached to the focus shaft even when in MF mode. When
using for example a 300/2.8 with tele converter in MF, you have to force
1) lens
2) TC
3) internal gearing (in the camera)
Plus slack in all gearing. This leads to extraordinarily sloppy focusing
and is a major pain on the 7. So they put in a mode where you can
physically decouple the focusing shaft from the lens, as done in all pre-7
Minoltas.

> Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
> Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)

Probably just a safeguard. But I am a little scared about using the AS
system in cold; seems like it could actually freeze quite easily.

(Tom) wrote in
news: m:

> All my AF lenses transmit their actual focal length to the camera.
> The exposure data recording does show this.

But is that really /actual/ focal length, meaning not the marketing focal
lengths printed on the lens? I don't think so. For example, the 100-
400/4,5-6,7 APO is really a 101-382mm lens. The 135/2.8 is a 133mm. This
info is needed for the best AS operation.

> In the Magic Lantern book
> "Classic Minolta Cameras", the sections on the i series cameras does
> state that Minolta zooms have data on up to 12 zoom positions that are
> transmitted to the camera for use in "P" setting of desired shutter
> speed.
[snip]
> There was also some info on one of the
> KM sites that stated that FL and magnification were taken into account
> for AS.

The question is how fine-grained the info used by the AS system needs to
be. If it really is true that the lens transmits info in twelve zones, it
can't be that critical; but I don't think it does. Rather I'd guess that
previous cameras don't take exact zoom positions (transmitted by the lens)
in account but rather uses twelve zones in their internal programming.

If the FL info was that course (not taking actual FL into consideration,
dividing the zooms in "zones") there would be absolutely no reason to do an
infinity search at startup (as mag change when focusing is orders of
magnitude less than when zooming a 100-400 inside a "zone"!). So, using a
little backward logic, I indeed think that
1) The lens transmits a unique lens ID
2) It also transmits "marketing" focal lengths in pretty precise steps
3) This is matched to an in-camera database storing all pre-D-lenses to
determine real FL; the D lenses probably have means to transmit "real" info
4) Focus distance is also used either from D or the in-body decoder

> I think I disagree with Magus on where the database of lens parameters
> is stored. He says the camera, but I think it is in each lens.
> Reason? - Because my 24-105 lens was designed after my 700si or my
> XTsi were made. But that lens works correctly with both of those
> cameras to do the "P" mode scene recognition and subject program
> exposure settings.

There is no incompatibility, so why wouldn't it work with older cameras?
They can't use D info, but they will still do their calibration search at
the beginning to ensure that the focus is at a predetermined position.

> However, my Tokina and Sigma lenses don't with any
> of my 14-seg metering cameras.

It is well known that many third party lenses can't do proper "expert
system exposure", but the incompetence of these makers can't be taken as
proof for anything -- we don't know exactly where they screwed up

> (This has to do with setting the
> desired aperture and DOF for the type of shot, not for getting a
> corect exposure). So the data needed for the camera to know the
> focusing position of my 24-105 (or any other newly designed lens)
> probably has to be in the lens chip. I think that there is camera
> specific calibration data that customizes each lens for each model
> camera (for example, changing camera motor/AF drive ratios).

Of course lots of info is in the camera ROM IC -- but I am more thinking of
/actual/ focal lengths, zoom range (probably matched to a unique "lens ID")
and the like. I am sceptical to the 20 year old AF lenses being so
sophisticated and forward-looking, but of course everything is possible

Tom wrote:

>>The 100 f/2.8 macro does have a focus range limiter and this is probably an
>>issue wrt the above exerpt.
>
>
> Alan,
> I agree with you. I use mine mostly with the range limiter in 'full'
> position. I haven't had problems with it hunting. Although I usually
> use manual focus for macro, I've also been successful when handholding
> to set my film 7 to continuous AF. I found that in continuous the 7
> can keep up with my rocking back and forth. Also with the film 7,
> I'll use the AF/MF button on the back if the AF does start to hunt.
> Then I press the button; the camera switches to MF; and I'll manually
> focus. Once I'm in focus, I release the button; the camera switches
> back to AF and tracks if I rock.

I've had the 100 f/2.8 for about 2 years. It is stellar in all respects.

Cheers,
Alan

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-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--