«

Greetings all,

I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
between shoots?

Thanks,

Steven

Steven wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
> cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
> over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
> notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
> between shoots?
>

I can't speak about SD memory cards, but my experience and experiments
with a few CF cards in two cameras (set out below) give me the
impression that there is little to choose among newly produced memory
cards.

It seems to me most of what differences appear depend on the camera.
Certain dSLRs have integrated with Lexar's WA speedup technology. Most
digital cameras have not. Apart from that, at least one of the more
recent, higher-MP cameras seems to have architecture that accommodates
whatever potential the card may have.

==============================
_I set up my Nikon CP5700 on a tripod, filled the monitor with a view of
a CRT
showing the Windows Time/Date adjustment facility, so the photograph
would include a record, and I could see what was happening in real-and
verifiable, if needed-time.

Camera saw everything at 1/15 second, f2.8, same view for every
exposure.

RAW, full-size exposures after format of a CF card in camera.

I waited until the on-screen digital counter said xx:00 or xx:30,
depending on how long it took me to record data and reformat the card
between shots. As soon as the 00 or 30 digits appeared I pushed the
shutter release button. The effect of this was that the camera monitor
screen went blank at :01 or :31, very consistently.

The camera monitor and the CRT were in a sight line, so I could look at
the time and still see when the camera recovered a view (screen
un-blanked). I recorded that interval for the first few trials, but
ceased when it seemed clear the time was the same independent of card
type or speed: 8 (eight seconds, approx.).

Once the camera monitor acquired a view, I watched the little recording
symbol until it disappeared, and recorded the time I saw on the CRT time
display.

Re-format the CF card, repeat the exposure, three exposures per card,
change cards, repeat for each card. Actually I had to repeat a repeat or
three, as I nodded off and failed to note the time on a few trials.
(more seniorness)

These are the cards I used, and their sources:
Viking 512MB, two years old, no speed marked on card, Amazon.com
SanDisk 512MB #1 plain, one month old, Costco
SanDisk 512MB #2 plain, one month old, Costco
San Disk 512MB Ultra II, two weeks old, Costco
Lexar 512MB 40X #1, eight months old, disremembered online source
Lexar 512MB 40X #2, two months old, BandH
Lexar 1GB 80X, less than a week old, Adorama

These are the times I recorded as elapsed between button-push and
symbol-gone. I chose the mode if times were not identical; otherwise,
they were consistent (identical) among trials.

CP5700 and
Viking 512MB 83 seconds
SanDisk Plain #1 32 seconds
SanDisk Plain #2 39 seconds
SanDisk Ultra II 22 seconds
Lexar 40X #1 25 seconds
Lexar 40X #2 20 seconds
Lexar 80X 22 seconds


Then, with absolutely the same setup, I used the 8MP, ISO 50

CP8700 and
Viking 512MB 23 seconds*
SanDisk Plain #1 16 seconds
SanDisk Plain #2 17 seconds
SanDisk Ultra II 16 seconds
Lexar 40X #1 18 seconds
Lexar 40X #2 16 seconds
Lexar 80X 16 seconds

I take this to mean that identically inscribed cards (two SanDisk
Plains; two Lexar 40Xs) can be as different one to the other as the
differences between comparable but differently branded cards in these
cameras; cards perfomed fairly consistently relative to each other, in
two different but similar cameras; the remarkable differences are
attributable to the camera; the camera can drag a mediocre performer to
the level of much more expensive cards (SanDisk Plains' latencies went
from 32-39 to 16-17 seconds, an improvement of 200-240%, Viking improved
by 360%, and the others were better by 125-140%, camera-to-camera).

* First trial with the Viking card in the CP8700 was a mind-blower: it
lost the view at shutter-release, reacquired it with the writing symbol
on screen, and as near as I could tell, was still writing at five
minutes! Then eight minutes. At ten minutes I started pushing buttons,
but everything was frozen. I had to remove and reinsert the battery tray
to make it come alive again. Reformatted the Viking card (again) and the
rest of the trials went as expected, but quite a bit faster.


This morning I sat in the waiting room while my car was serviced, and
did this:

CP8700, 1GB 80X Lexar CF card, ISO 50, 1/125, f7.2, camera propped up
and as little disturbed as I could manage, framed a glass doorway with
New Car displayed beyond,

I took one dozen RAW photos, releasing the shutter as quickly as the
camera would allow. I counted down between screen blank and view
recovery (about 8 seconds) and looking at EXIF info for actual
button-push times.

The camera would accept a new photo (shutter release) as soon as the
view was reacquired, for the first four photos, even though the writing
symbol was displayed. After that, the hourglass buffer-full symbol would
display for increasing amounts of time, but never exceeded sixteen
seconds after view reacquisition.

After the twelfth shutter release, I let it close itself out, and it
wrote for about 24 seconds.

I take this to mean the CP8700 writes to the 80X Lexar card at 16
seconds per 12,374KB RAW image, and that a user can depend on the camera
to allow about four exposures per minute as long as battery and memory
hold out. Does that sound right?_

===============================
--
Frank ess

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:28:15 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
wrote:

>Steven wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
>> cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
>> over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
>> notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
>> between shoots?
>>
>
>I can't speak about SD memory cards, but my experience and experiments
>with a few CF cards in two cameras (set out below) give me the
>impression that there is little to choose among newly produced memory
>cards.
>
>It seems to me most of what differences appear depend on the camera.
>Certain dSLRs have integrated with Lexar's WA speedup technology. Most
>digital cameras have not. Apart from that, at least one of the more
>recent, higher-MP cameras seems to have architecture that accommodates
>whatever potential the card may have.
>
>==============================
>_I set up my Nikon CP5700 on a tripod, filled the monitor with a view of
>a CRT
>showing the Windows Time/Date adjustment facility, so the photograph
>would include a record, and I could see what was happening in real-and
>verifiable, if needed-time.
>
>Camera saw everything at 1/15 second, f2.8, same view for every
>exposure.
>
>RAW, full-size exposures after format of a CF card in camera.
>
>I waited until the on-screen digital counter said xx:00 or xx:30,
>depending on how long it took me to record data and reformat the card
>between shots. As soon as the 00 or 30 digits appeared I pushed the
>shutter release button. The effect of this was that the camera monitor
>screen went blank at :01 or :31, very consistently.
>
>The camera monitor and the CRT were in a sight line, so I could look at
>the time and still see when the camera recovered a view (screen
>un-blanked). I recorded that interval for the first few trials, but
>ceased when it seemed clear the time was the same independent of card
>type or speed: 8 (eight seconds, approx.).
>
>Once the camera monitor acquired a view, I watched the little recording
>symbol until it disappeared, and recorded the time I saw on the CRT time
>display.
>
>Re-format the CF card, repeat the exposure, three exposures per card,
>change cards, repeat for each card. Actually I had to repeat a repeat or
>three, as I nodded off and failed to note the time on a few trials.
>(more seniorness)
>
>These are the cards I used, and their sources:
>Viking 512MB, two years old, no speed marked on card, Amazon.com
>SanDisk 512MB #1 plain, one month old, Costco
>SanDisk 512MB #2 plain, one month old, Costco
>San Disk 512MB Ultra II, two weeks old, Costco
>Lexar 512MB 40X #1, eight months old, disremembered online source
>Lexar 512MB 40X #2, two months old, BandH
>Lexar 1GB 80X, less than a week old, Adorama
>
>These are the times I recorded as elapsed between button-push and
>symbol-gone. I chose the mode if times were not identical; otherwise,
>they were consistent (identical) among trials.
>
>CP5700 and
>Viking 512MB 83 seconds
>SanDisk Plain #1 32 seconds
>SanDisk Plain #2 39 seconds
>SanDisk Ultra II 22 seconds
>Lexar 40X #1 25 seconds
>Lexar 40X #2 20 seconds
>Lexar 80X 22 seconds
>
>
>Then, with absolutely the same setup, I used the 8MP, ISO 50
>
>CP8700 and
>Viking 512MB 23 seconds*
>SanDisk Plain #1 16 seconds
>SanDisk Plain #2 17 seconds
>SanDisk Ultra II 16 seconds
>Lexar 40X #1 18 seconds
>Lexar 40X #2 16 seconds
>Lexar 80X 16 seconds
>
>I take this to mean that identically inscribed cards (two SanDisk
>Plains; two Lexar 40Xs) can be as different one to the other as the
>differences between comparable but differently branded cards in these
>cameras; cards perfomed fairly consistently relative to each other, in
>two different but similar cameras; the remarkable differences are
>attributable to the camera; the camera can drag a mediocre performer to
>the level of much more expensive cards (SanDisk Plains' latencies went
>from 32-39 to 16-17 seconds, an improvement of 200-240%, Viking improved
>by 360%, and the others were better by 125-140%, camera-to-camera).
>
>* First trial with the Viking card in the CP8700 was a mind-blower: it
>lost the view at shutter-release, reacquired it with the writing symbol
>on screen, and as near as I could tell, was still writing at five
>minutes! Then eight minutes. At ten minutes I started pushing buttons,
>but everything was frozen. I had to remove and reinsert the battery tray
>to make it come alive again. Reformatted the Viking card (again) and the
>rest of the trials went as expected, but quite a bit faster.
>
>
>This morning I sat in the waiting room while my car was serviced, and
>did this:
>
>CP8700, 1GB 80X Lexar CF card, ISO 50, 1/125, f7.2, camera propped up
>and as little disturbed as I could manage, framed a glass doorway with
>New Car displayed beyond,
>
>I took one dozen RAW photos, releasing the shutter as quickly as the
>camera would allow. I counted down between screen blank and view
>recovery (about 8 seconds) and looking at EXIF info for actual
>button-push times.
>
>The camera would accept a new photo (shutter release) as soon as the
>view was reacquired, for the first four photos, even though the writing
>symbol was displayed. After that, the hourglass buffer-full symbol would
>display for increasing amounts of time, but never exceeded sixteen
>seconds after view reacquisition.
>
>After the twelfth shutter release, I let it close itself out, and it
>wrote for about 24 seconds.
>
>I take this to mean the CP8700 writes to the 80X Lexar card at 16
>seconds per 12,374KB RAW image, and that a user can depend on the camera
>to allow about four exposures per minute as long as battery and memory
>hold out. Does that sound right?_
>
>===============================
pffft
--
Lila Duncan

Steven wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
> cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
> over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
> notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
> between shoots?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steven

Maybe. Any system is only as fast as the slowest of its parts. If your
camera is not fast enough to drive the flash card at full speed, then
your benefit will fall short of the maximum. I would try to manage a
test before spending more money for the faster card.

"Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Steven wrote:
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
> > cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
> > over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
> > notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
> > between shoots?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Steven
>
> Maybe. Any system is only as fast as the slowest of its parts. If your
> camera is not fast enough to drive the flash card at full speed, then
> your benefit will fall short of the maximum. I would try to manage a
> test before spending more money for the faster card.

When I got my Canon S1 IS this summer, it came with a 32MB "fast" card. I
thought "high speed, maybe I need to get new CFs to replace my SanDisks".
Ran a couple of simple tests (Canon "fast" 32 MB and San "ordinary" 64 MB) -
set camera to "continuous shooting" and held down the shutter release AND
(reformatted the card) set camera to "movie" and shot until cards full.
(stills at 1024x768 superfine; movie at 30fps 640x480 fine). No
image/frames lost, so whether the camera can't take advantage of "fast"
cards, has a big enough buffer for handling a 64 MB card or what, I see no
benefit (to me) of buying "fast" cards. Although I haven't run re-tests
after upgrading the firmware to the latest version....

Keith

"Keith" <> wrote in message news:cjja51$9vh$...
>
> "Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > Steven wrote:
> > > Greetings all,
> > >
> > > I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
> > > cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
> > > over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
> > > notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
> > > between shoots?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Steven
> >
> > Maybe. Any system is only as fast as the slowest of its parts. If your
> > camera is not fast enough to drive the flash card at full speed, then
> > your benefit will fall short of the maximum. I would try to manage a
> > test before spending more money for the faster card.
>
> When I got my Canon S1 IS this summer, it came with a 32MB "fast" card. I
> thought "high speed, maybe I need to get new CFs to replace my SanDisks".
> Ran a couple of simple tests (Canon "fast" 32 MB and San "ordinary" 64 MB) -
> set camera to "continuous shooting" and held down the shutter release AND
> (reformatted the card) set camera to "movie" and shot until cards full.
> (stills at 1024x768 superfine; movie at 30fps 640x480 fine). No
> image/frames lost, so whether the camera can't take advantage of "fast"
> cards, has a big enough buffer for handling a 64 MB card or what, I see no
> benefit (to me) of buying "fast" cards. Although I haven't run re-tests
> after upgrading the firmware to the latest version....

Canon's "fast" card is simply a rebadged SimpleTech
SLOW card. Try a Sandisk Ultra II and you will see
better performance -- maybe not in every function but
certainly in some.

Rick

Frank,

Thanks for yout very thorough message!! I wish there was more
information about the actual testeted speed differences for practical
applications on the market. Have not see a comparison as you discribe
in PC Mag, G4TechTV, or similar forum.

Thanks again,

-Steven

"Frank ess" <> wrote in message news:<kp6dnfRZvp1GwMHcRVn->...
> Steven wrote:
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I have a question regarding the 'Ultra' / 'High-Speed' SD flash memory
> > cards. Manufacturers claim "up to a five times boost in performance
> > over traditional secure digital cards" or even more, however will I
> > notice a difference in 'Burst' mode re: frames per second and/or time
> > between shoots?
> >
>
> I can't speak about SD memory cards, but my experience and experiments
> with a few CF cards in two cameras (set out below) give me the
> impression that there is little to choose among newly produced memory
> cards.
>
> It seems to me most of what differences appear depend on the camera.
> Certain dSLRs have integrated with Lexar's WA speedup technology. Most
> digital cameras have not. Apart from that, at least one of the more
> recent, higher-MP cameras seems to have architecture that accommodates
> whatever potential the card may have.
>
> ==============================
> _I set up my Nikon CP5700 on a tripod, filled the monitor with a view of
> a CRT
> showing the Windows Time/Date adjustment facility, so the photograph
> would include a record, and I could see what was happening in real-and
> verifiable, if needed-time.
>
> Camera saw everything at 1/15 second, f2.8, same view for every
> exposure.
>
> RAW, full-size exposures after format of a CF card in camera.
>
> I waited until the on-screen digital counter said xx:00 or xx:30,
> depending on how long it took me to record data and reformat the card
> between shots. As soon as the 00 or 30 digits appeared I pushed the
> shutter release button. The effect of this was that the camera monitor
> screen went blank at :01 or :31, very consistently.
>
> The camera monitor and the CRT were in a sight line, so I could look at
> the time and still see when the camera recovered a view (screen
> un-blanked). I recorded that interval for the first few trials, but
> ceased when it seemed clear the time was the same independent of card
> type or speed: 8 (eight seconds, approx.).
>
> Once the camera monitor acquired a view, I watched the little recording
> symbol until it disappeared, and recorded the time I saw on the CRT time
> display.
>
> Re-format the CF card, repeat the exposure, three exposures per card,
> change cards, repeat for each card. Actually I had to repeat a repeat or
> three, as I nodded off and failed to note the time on a few trials.
> (more seniorness)
>
> These are the cards I used, and their sources:
> Viking 512MB, two years old, no speed marked on card, Amazon.com
> SanDisk 512MB #1 plain, one month old, Costco
> SanDisk 512MB #2 plain, one month old, Costco
> San Disk 512MB Ultra II, two weeks old, Costco
> Lexar 512MB 40X #1, eight months old, disremembered online source
> Lexar 512MB 40X #2, two months old, BandH
> Lexar 1GB 80X, less than a week old, Adorama
>
> These are the times I recorded as elapsed between button-push and
> symbol-gone. I chose the mode if times were not identical; otherwise,
> they were consistent (identical) among trials.
>
> CP5700 and
> Viking 512MB 83 seconds
> SanDisk Plain #1 32 seconds
> SanDisk Plain #2 39 seconds
> SanDisk Ultra II 22 seconds
> Lexar 40X #1 25 seconds
> Lexar 40X #2 20 seconds
> Lexar 80X 22 seconds
>
>
> Then, with absolutely the same setup, I used the 8MP, ISO 50
>
> CP8700 and
> Viking 512MB 23 seconds*
> SanDisk Plain #1 16 seconds
> SanDisk Plain #2 17 seconds
> SanDisk Ultra II 16 seconds
> Lexar 40X #1 18 seconds
> Lexar 40X #2 16 seconds
> Lexar 80X 16 seconds
>
> I take this to mean that identically inscribed cards (two SanDisk
> Plains; two Lexar 40Xs) can be as different one to the other as the
> differences between comparable but differently branded cards in these
> cameras; cards perfomed fairly consistently relative to each other, in
> two different but similar cameras; the remarkable differences are
> attributable to the camera; the camera can drag a mediocre performer to
> the level of much more expensive cards (SanDisk Plains' latencies went
> from 32-39 to 16-17 seconds, an improvement of 200-240%, Viking improved
> by 360%, and the others were better by 125-140%, camera-to-camera).
>
> * First trial with the Viking card in the CP8700 was a mind-blower: it
> lost the view at shutter-release, reacquired it with the writing symbol
> on screen, and as near as I could tell, was still writing at five
> minutes! Then eight minutes. At ten minutes I started pushing buttons,
> but everything was frozen. I had to remove and reinsert the battery tray
> to make it come alive again. Reformatted the Viking card (again) and the
> rest of the trials went as expected, but quite a bit faster.
>
>
> This morning I sat in the waiting room while my car was serviced, and
> did this:
>
> CP8700, 1GB 80X Lexar CF card, ISO 50, 1/125, f7.2, camera propped up
> and as little disturbed as I could manage, framed a glass doorway with
> New Car displayed beyond,
>
> I took one dozen RAW photos, releasing the shutter as quickly as the
> camera would allow. I counted down between screen blank and view
> recovery (about 8 seconds) and looking at EXIF info for actual
> button-push times.
>
> The camera would accept a new photo (shutter release) as soon as the
> view was reacquired, for the first four photos, even though the writing
> symbol was displayed. After that, the hourglass buffer-full symbol would
> display for increasing amounts of time, but never exceeded sixteen
> seconds after view reacquisition.
>
> After the twelfth shutter release, I let it close itself out, and it
> wrote for about 24 seconds.
>
> I take this to mean the CP8700 writes to the 80X Lexar card at 16
> seconds per 12,374KB RAW image, and that a user can depend on the camera
> to allow about four exposures per minute as long as battery and memory
> hold out. Does that sound right?_
>
> ===============================