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Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

 
 
#2 Aluxe
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      10-19-2006
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> You can't search usenet for IPs.


Hi Mark McIntyre,

Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.

For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
address).

If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
those kind of searches in that same minute.

Can't you?
 
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Dana
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      10-19-2006

"#2 Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:m15nlb3pua0h$.17k8fg61f2j4l$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> > You can't search usenet for IPs.

>
> Hi Mark McIntyre,
>
> Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.
>
> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
> alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
> address).


Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

>
> If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
> those kind of searches in that same minute.
>
> Can't you?



 
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#2 Aluxe
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-19-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
>> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
>> alt.personals


> Did you have the same router 15 years ago?


Hi Dana,

Now you're finally agreeing with me!

It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.
 
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Dana
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      10-19-2006

"#2 Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1n8hyc3gjcqee.1gaadrp3z6wuu$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
> >> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
> >> alt.personals

>
> > Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Now you're finally agreeing with me!


Well no, not really.
I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

>
> It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
> can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.


If someone wanted to, they could. and that is the point people are trying to
make, more than likely you would not be a target of such people. Unless of
course you are a politician like Foley found out.



 
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#2 Aluxe
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      10-19-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
> I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
> your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.


Hi Dana,
I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).

For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy. (Did
we not?)

Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts to
alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)

It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.
POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.

This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?
(I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?
(I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
(I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)

This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
discussion.
 
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Dana
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      10-19-2006

"#2 Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1tn4zhjqngy9n$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to

increase
> > your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

>
> Hi Dana,
> I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).
>
> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.

(Did
> we not?)


This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.

>
> Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
> router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts

to
> alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
> to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
> is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)


No. You made the remark about going back 15 years, so I as a joke asked if
you had the same router 15 years ago, knowing full well you were probably on
a dial up at 2400, or 9600 speed. I remember those days as well.
>
> It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
> POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.


If they are pay services: NO
if they are free I want to say yes, but I need to see if there is a
registration process, so I am going with a maybe.

> POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
> the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.


No, as there are other ways just as easy to track your newsgroup post, all
one needs to do is look at your path.
>
> This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
> 1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?


Yes and no. There is a global/local bit wich tells if you are using the
burned in address (global) or a locally assigned (you make one up) address.

> (I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
> 2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?


Your reader may allow you to modify your headers.
I am doing nothing to mine, so either OE does not send it, or my news server
is stripping it off.

> (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
> 3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
> (I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)
>
> This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
> discussion.



 
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#2 Aluxe
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      10-19-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:29:08 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
>> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
>> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.

> (Did we not?)
>
> This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
> know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.


Hi Dana,
I can definately say I have posted from public wireless hot spots which do
NOT require any registration process whatsoever.

Many hotels, for example, have free public wireless access in their
lobbies.

Of course, some hotspots do have a registration process ... the clincher
being their need to obtain money from you (generally by credit card) ...
which we all know identifies you to your social security number which
basically provides your whole life history to almost anyone who can use a
telephone to ask.

So, I think we've definitively established the following:

a. Does changing the MAC address leave a tell-tale change bit?
Yes. But that in and of itself is not subtractive to privacy.

b. Is changing a MAC at a public hotspot additive to privacy?
Probably.
Especially if the public hot spot requires no other registration.

c. Is removal of the NNTP Posting Host additive to privacy?
Maybe. I certainly believe so; but others are not so sure
(however, they are certainly hung up on the ISP knowing who
we are which was never the question so their answers are
suspect once you consider they are answering a different
question than that which was posed).

Given that I think we have determined the above to as great a degree as we
can (bearing in mind the hugely emotional aspect of some people's
postings), I think I'm left with determining the following.

1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
(I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

2. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on demand?
(I'm testing one helpful sugestion as we speak.)

3. If you change the MAC address & change it back ... is the tattletale bit
still set?
(???)
 
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Warren Oates
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-19-2006
In article <1tn4zhjqngy9n$(E-Mail Removed)>,
#2 Aluxe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> 2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?
> (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)


You can't override that header. It's put there by your isp (or your news
service). You can subsrcibe to a private news service. Look at my
NNTP-posting-host; you won't get my real IP without a court order or
some serious social engineering. Pretending to be a lawyer won't work.
--
W. Oates
Teal'c: He is concealing something.
O'Neil: Like what?
Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
 
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Chris F Clark
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-19-2006
> 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
> (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)


If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
there.

However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
doesn't provide any real value.

I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.

In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
artifact that is at most mildly interesting.

If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
yourself.

I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
me useless stuff.

That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
over is "more private". Yeah, right....

By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
"important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.

If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.

So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.

If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************** ***************************
Chris Clark Internet : http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (50 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (97 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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Dana
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-19-2006

"Chris F Clark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
> > (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

>
> If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
> yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
> cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
> stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
> spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
> we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
> that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
> step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
> In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
> AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
> Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
> have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
> Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
> there.
>
> However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
> and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
> your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
> doesn't provide any real value.
>
> I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
> interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
> interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
> other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
> That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.
>
> In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
> addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
> to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
> your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
> NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
> artifact that is at most mildly interesting.
>
> If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
> for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
> actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
> source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
> yourself.
>
> I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
> instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
> care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
> that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
> how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
> to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
> and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
> imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
> The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
> knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
> sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
> me useless stuff.
>
> That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
> sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
> paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
> anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
> your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
> public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
> over is "more private". Yeah, right....
>
> By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
> to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
> hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
> information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
> to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
> "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
> its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
> will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.
>
> If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
> has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
> instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
> having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.
>
> So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
> thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
> to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
> to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
> interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.
>
> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
> Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.
>
> Hope this helps,
> -Chris
>


Very well said Chris.

>

************************************************** **************************
*
> Chris Clark Internet : (E-Mail Removed)
> Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
> 23 Bailey Rd voice : (50 435-5016
> Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (97 838-0263 (24 hours)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

----


 
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