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Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

 
 
Aluxe
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      10-18-2006
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.

>
> While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
> There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.


Hi Dana,
I'll give you a real life, albeit embarrassing, reason for changing a MAC
address.

When I was in high school, a student made a lot of fun of my body. Said I
was a "twiggy" (those old enough out there will know what that means).

Well, recently I was back home, and I saw her, and she looked positively
huge. She must have doubled in weight. I wanted to get her back. So, I
logged into NetZero from a blocked phone line, and I sent her a message
calling her all sorts of names to get her back. I even said I was a
"friend" of hers way back when but I thought she looked like a pig now.

Point is, I figured the only way they could track that email I sent her was
through my MAC address since the IP address would have been registered to
NetZero and the phone number I called from would have been blocked.

Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
Or did I give myself away even then?
 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:6xpsis0n7z26$.1bpm30hw360sr$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.

> >
> > While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
> > There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.

>
> Hi Dana,
> I'll give you a real life, albeit embarrassing, reason for changing a MAC
> address.
>
> When I was in high school, a student made a lot of fun of my body. Said I
> was a "twiggy" (those old enough out there will know what that means).
>
> Well, recently I was back home, and I saw her, and she looked positively
> huge. She must have doubled in weight. I wanted to get her back. So, I
> logged into NetZero from a blocked phone line, and I sent her a message
> calling her all sorts of names to get her back. I even said I was a
> "friend" of hers way back when but I thought she looked like a pig now.
>
> Point is, I figured the only way they could track that email I sent her

was
> through my MAC address since the IP address would have been registered to
> NetZero and the phone number I called from would have been blocked.
>
> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
> Or did I give myself away even then?


The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a court
order for your ISP to show it to them.
The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.


 
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Aluxe
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      10-18-2006
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:51:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
>> Or did I give myself away even then?

>
> The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a court
> order for your ISP to show it to them.
> The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.


Hi Dana,
Sorry to keep hammering on this but the question I asked was "didn't
changing the MAC address add a modicum of privacy to my email"?

For example, if she had a packet sniffer or if she got a court order to
track the email, wouldn't the MAC address have been a key component of the
traceback?

And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
extra level of privacy to that traceback?

Yes or no is what I'd expect the answer to be.
 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:6reykj1cl80a$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:51:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some

privacy?
> >> Or did I give myself away even then?

> >
> > The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a

court
> > order for your ISP to show it to them.
> > The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.

>
> Hi Dana,
> Sorry to keep hammering on this but the question I asked was "didn't
> changing the MAC address add a modicum of privacy to my email"?


No.

>
> For example, if she had a packet sniffer or if she got a court order to
> track the email, wouldn't the MAC address have been a key component of the
> traceback?


Your ISP will always have whatever MAC address you use, hence if they were
given a court order, they would have to give it up.


>
> And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
> extra level of privacy to that traceback?


No, because your isp would know it is associated with your account, hence
they would have to give that info out if there was a court order.



 
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Aluxe
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      10-18-2006
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:34:50 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
>> extra level of privacy to that traceback?

>
> No, because your isp would know it is associated with your account, hence
> they would have to give that info out if there was a court order.


Hi Dana,
I do appreciate your taking the time to explain this to me.
Let me see if I have it correct this time:

CASE 1 (home ISP):
In the case of a home ISP, where I have to log in with a user name and a
password from a dedicated account, changing the MAC address provides
absolutely no additional privacy since the ISP knows the MAC address used,
even if it is 00-00-00-00-00-00.

CASE 2 (NetZero dialup):
Even in the case of NetZero dialup, there may not be an additional level of
privacy gained by changing the MAC address because you have to first
establish an account with NetZero which requires a previous account which
will have your original MAC address associated with it - which can always
be traced back to you by your ISP.

CASE 3 (hotel free hotspot):
However, in the case of a hotel freebie hotspot, changing the MAC address
to 00-00-00-00-00-00 DOES PROVIDE AN EXTRA LEVEL OF PRIVACY because in this
case, the MAC address is the only factor they have in tracing the
connection back to you.

Did I summarize the implications of changing the MAC address correctly?
 
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John Navas
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      10-18-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:15:38 GMT, Aluxe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in <6reykj1cl80a$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:51:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
>>> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
>>> Or did I give myself away even then?

>>
>> The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a court
>> order for your ISP to show it to them.
>> The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.

>
>Hi Dana,
>Sorry to keep hammering on this but the question I asked was "didn't
>changing the MAC address add a modicum of privacy to my email"?


Nope. Nada. Zilch.

>For example, if she had a packet sniffer or if she got a court order to
>track the email, wouldn't the MAC address have been a key component of the
>traceback?
>
>And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
>extra level of privacy to that traceback?
>
>Yes or no is what I'd expect the answer to be.


Nope. Nada. Zilch.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:el08vggrgg3b$.34blm2k3v78j$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:34:50 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
> >> extra level of privacy to that traceback?

> >
> > No, because your isp would know it is associated with your account,

hence
> > they would have to give that info out if there was a court order.

>
> Hi Dana,
> I do appreciate your taking the time to explain this to me.
> Let me see if I have it correct this time:
>
> CASE 1 (home ISP):
> In the case of a home ISP, where I have to log in with a user name and a
> password from a dedicated account, changing the MAC address provides
> absolutely no additional privacy since the ISP knows the MAC address used,
> even if it is 00-00-00-00-00-00.


Yes, that is how the protocol works. The next upstream device (your ISP has
to know what mac address to send the replies to.
>
> CASE 2 (NetZero dialup):
> Even in the case of NetZero dialup, there may not be an additional level

of
> privacy gained by changing the MAC address because you have to first
> establish an account with NetZero which requires a previous account which
> will have your original MAC address associated with it - which can always
> be traced back to you by your ISP.


They may have your original MAC, but they will now use whatever MAC address
you are using now, as that identifies the machine you are using.
So if you log on using your friends lap top, netzero will associate you to
that lap top once you sign in.
>
> CASE 3 (hotel free hotspot):
> However, in the case of a hotel freebie hotspot, changing the MAC address
> to 00-00-00-00-00-00 DOES PROVIDE AN EXTRA LEVEL OF PRIVACY because in

this
> case, the MAC address is the only factor they have in tracing the
> connection back to you.


I am thinking this is a yes. When you change your MAC, that is a software
mac, yet your NIC has a burned in address. I am not sure if your first
connection to the hotspot will use the burned in address, or the software
changed MAC.
I will have to look into this one. For now I will say yes it works like you
are saying.


 
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Warren Oates
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      10-18-2006
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Your ISP will always have whatever MAC address you use, hence if they were
> given a court order, they would have to give it up.


I'm not even sure how a MAC address is relevant. My ISP only sees the
MAC address of my router. So what? And my router will let me change
that, if I want.

This is a nutbar.
--
W. Oates
Teal'c: He is concealing something.
O'Neil: Like what?
Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
 
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Aluxe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-18-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:15:50 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> I'm not even sure how a [PC] MAC address is relevant.
> My ISP only sees the MAC address of my router.


Hmmm... I am learning of the subtlties of privacy.

CASE 1 (ISP from a home network):
Is it true that the ISP never sees the spoofed PC MAC address; the ISP only
sees the ROUTER MAC address?

CASE 2 (modem dialup to NetZero from a blocked phone):
NetZero only sees your spoofed MAC address assuming you obtained the
NetZero software separately (e.g., from a library computer). However, the
initial establishment of an account may provide identifying information
since it requires an email address and a valid ISP just to download the
NetZero software. Even if you saved the NetZero software on a flash card,
you still would have needed to establish an initial connection to NetZero
to obtain the software even if that were years ago - which is the weak
link (as far as we can tell).

CASE 3 (free hotspot):
It seems that changing the MAC address prior to connection is additive to
privacy. I think there is a "change bit" which indicates the MAC address
were changed but I am unsure of that.
 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Warren Oates" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:45360c9f$0$5543$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Your ISP will always have whatever MAC address you use, hence if they

were
> > given a court order, they would have to give it up.

>
> I'm not even sure how a MAC address is relevant. My ISP only sees the
> MAC address of my router. So what? And my router will let me change
> that, if I want.
>
> This is a nutbar.


More akin to how they busted foley.
Just by using your internet account. For a lot of us, that is our always on
connection to the internet.
You logged on to the internet from somewhere.
> --
> W. Oates
> Teal'c: He is concealing something.
> O'Neil: Like what?
> Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.



 
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