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Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

 
 
Aluxe
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      10-18-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:09:52 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
> Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp
>
> No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> nothing bad has happened).


Oh my!

I finally understand I've been changing the wrong MAC address in the case
of the ISP because in this home-networking case, I am behind a ROUTER.

So, it's the router's MAC that I should have been changing.

Ouch. I was dumb. I was wasting my time.

I don't know how to change the linksys router's MAC yet. But, even so, I
understand that in CASE 1 (home ISP), changing the MAC isn't additive to
privacy so it's a moot point.

But, if I did change the router's MAC, it _might_ wreak havoc with the ISP
as you noted (I would assume not though as you can change routers all you
want and it shouldn't bother the ISP).

I am learning from you all!
THANKS
 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Warren Oates" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:453610a7$0$5595$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Aluxe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > QUESTION:
> > Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> > brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

>
> No.


That was my point about the MAC. His changing it made no change in
identifying him, if someone really wanted too.

> --
> W. Oates
> Teal'c: He is concealing something.
> O'Neil: Like what?
> Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.



 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:15rr9bxve2jce.1k78vxx9eshov$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:33:01 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> >> Assuming a free hotspot ...
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

> >
> > No.

>
> Hi Warren Oates,
> I think this particular question is still out for a reasonable jury to
> decide.
>
> My hypothesis (needs to stand the test of reason) is that all "they" know
> about the computer and owner is the (bogus) MAC address and the fact that
> the bogus MAC address is not the original burned-in MAC address (due to a
> presumed change bit being flipped that you can not unflip once you change
> the MAC address). They don't have any other identifying information (other
> than the content of the messages sent by this means).


This really is now getting into computer forensics, kind of interesting.

>
> One other question I have is what happens if you change the MAC address
> back.
>
> Does than 'unchange' the change bit on the MAC address?



 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1v7ug0nbbi6a1.12l9iu6bomjvs$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:50:16 -0800, Dana wrote:
>
> >> CASE 3:
> >> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot.
> >> Wouldn't a prior change of the MAC address add privacy?

> >
> > For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
> > As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC,
> > that cannot be changed by you.

>
> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?) bit
> on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the burned-in MAC
> or a modified MAC.


I have needed to change MAC's for a couple of systems I worked on. I never
really dug that deep, I only knew that it was called a software MAC when I
would direct the PC to use the MAC I gave it, instead of the burned in
address. I read what Warren wrote, and I am now going to dig into that.
>
> So, as far as I know, the only thing they can tell is that you're not

using
> the original MAC ... but that in and of itself doesn't give them the
> original MAC (AFAIK).


No, if you are using the changed MAC address, they will not see the burned
in address, which really only identifies the NIC.
>
> The problem with this assumption (of the change bit) is that means the MAC
> address is NOT the FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF we think it is because that doesn't
> allow for the change bit. This change-bit part confuses me.



 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1t5h7zv6bwftc$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:01:35 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of

your
> > DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find

a
> > way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
> > probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.

>
> Hi Dana,
>
> We're getting somewhere here. I'm sorry I was so thick as to not

understand
> prior comments about changing the MAC address not adding privacy under

most
> curcumstances. But, I still think under the free hotspot circumstance,
> changing the MAC address is additive to privacy.


Besides the change bit, I tend to agree with the hotspot.
But you would have to change the address before an initial connection.
>
> I can answer your concerns above - having done it many times .
> yes
> no
> maybe
>
> Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp
>
> No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> nothing bad has happened).


Correct because they have no idea how many computers you may own or have
access to. They give you the login information, not a paticular device.

>
> Maybe there is a change bit (I read that somewhere) in the MAC address so
> the ISP and the hotel lobby both know you changed the MAC address. In the
> case of the ISP, they never had your original MAC address (since I changed
> it looong ago before joining my current ISP) ... so all they ever had were
> the random MAC addresses but they can associate some of those random MAC
> addresses to me so I must be careful not to reuse them.


This topic has really opened up some interesting issues.
>
>
>
>
>



 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006

"Aluxe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:efkny47u3i04$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:09:52 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
> > Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> > MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> > http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp
> >
> > No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> > nothing bad has happened).

>
> Oh my!
>
> I finally understand I've been changing the wrong MAC address in the case
> of the ISP because in this home-networking case, I am behind a ROUTER.
>
> So, it's the router's MAC that I should have been changing.


But even at that, if you are doing this from a DSL or cable modem or dial up
internet account, you have to log in. So once you log in with your account
info, whatever mac address you use will be associated to your name.
The only way around that would be to set up an account with a different
name.
That may work for awhile with a dial up account, but with a DSL or cable
Modem that is actually kind of placed at a paticular residence, just
changing your name may not hide the identity.
>
> Ouch. I was dumb. I was wasting my time.
>
> I don't know how to change the linksys router's MAC yet. But, even so, I
> understand that in CASE 1 (home ISP), changing the MAC isn't additive to
> privacy so it's a moot point.


You may want to post this question to the hacker type groups
>
> But, if I did change the router's MAC, it _might_ wreak havoc with the ISP
> as you noted (I would assume not though as you can change routers all you
> want and it shouldn't bother the ISP).


Not your router, but the cable modem or DSL modem, that is the last address
prior to hitting the network, so that would be the address to change, but
then that is usually your providers equipment, and they would probably be a
tad upset about you getting in there making changes like that.
>
> I am learning from you all!
> THANKS



 
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I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com
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      10-18-2006
Gotta add my 2 cents to this:

You use many real world examples to try and justify what you are trying
to protect. But changing your IP is not really the same thing as
closing the bathroom stall door as you put it. It more like just moving
over to the next stall.

Closing the blinds, closing the door, closing your windows, locking
your car. All firewall similes.
Going out and moving your car a couple of spots over, that would be
changing your IP.

Leaving your purse in the shopping cart. vs
Leaving your purse in the shopping cart in one aisle over. Same end
effect as changing your IP. The person that wants the purse only has to
walk one more aisle over. Don't know about you, but that doesn't take
much effort if I want that purse.

Now locking your doors and rolling up your windows (firewall) vs
locking your doors and rolling up your windows and moving your car over
a couple of spots in the same parking lot (firewall and changing IP)
added nothing for security. It just means the person looking just had
to move over a couple of spots. Not only is this useless but it doesn't
take real amount of time. Once again, walking that extra little bit if
I want your car or its contents isn't going to do anything.

Also, you grabbed another posters information earlier to show the ease
to retrieve informaiton. Question is, was this information that the
poster had freely posted before? I find it safe to assume that if I
were to post it, then people are going to know about it. If I don't
want people to know it, I don't post it. So really, to say you've
discovered something about a person when the person sat there and told
a large group of people isn't much of an acomplishment.

Since I am posting from a static address, people are going to be able
to tell where I work. Good for them. Here I'll make it easy: I work for
a company called PAMI.
Now people know and will be able to look it up for a long time to come.
Does it matter? Of course not. Had it mattered I wouldn't have posted
it.
So if you do not people knowing were you work or such information,
don't post it.

 
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Dana
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      10-18-2006
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/product...tracking_x.htm
FBI director wants ISPs to track users
Declan McCullagh, for News.com

FBI Director Robert Mueller on Tuesday called on Internet service providers
to record their customers' online activities, a move that anticipates a
fierce debate over privacy and law enforcement in Washington next year.
"Terrorists coordinate their plans cloaked in the anonymity of the Internet,
as do violent sexual predators prowling chat rooms," Mueller said in a
speech at the International Association of Chiefs of Police conference in
Boston.
"All too often, we find that before we can catch these offenders, Internet
service providers have unwittingly deleted the very records that would help
us identify these offenders and protect future victims," Mueller said. "We
must find a balance between the legitimate need for privacy and law
enforcement's clear need for access."
The speech to the law enforcement group, which approved a resolution on the
topic earlier in the day, echoes other calls from Bush administration
officials to force private firms to record information about customers.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, for instance, told Congress last month
that "this is a national problem that requires federal legislation."
Justice Department officials admit privately that data retention legislation
is controversial enough that there wasn't time to ease it through the U.S.
Congress before politicians left to campaign for re-election. Instead, the
idea is expected to surface in early 2007, and one Democratic politician has
already promised legislation.
Law enforcement groups claim that by the time they contact Internet service
providers, customers' records may be deleted in the routine course of
business. Industry representatives, however, say that if police respond to
tips promptly instead of dawdling, it would be difficult to imagine any
investigation that would be imperiled.
It's not clear exactly what a data retention law would require. One proposal
would go beyond Internet providers and require registrars, the companies
that sell domain names, to maintain records too. And during private meetings
with industry officials, FBI and Justice Department representatives have
cited the desirability of also forcing search engines to keep logs - a
proposal that could gain additional law enforcement support after AOL showed
how useful such records could be in investigations.
A representative of the International Association of Chiefs of Police said
he was not able to provide a copy of the resolution.
Preservation vs. retention
At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log file
that's no longer required for business reasons such as network monitoring,
fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, however, alter that
general rule when contacted by police performing an investigation-a practice
called data preservation.
A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional Records
Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers to retain
any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request of a
governmental entity."
Because Internet addresses remain a relatively scarce commodity, ISPs tend
to allocate them to customers from a pool based on if a computer is in use
at the time. (Two standard techniques used are the Dynamic Host
Configuration Protocol and Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet.)
In addition, Internet providers are required by another federal law to
report child pornography sightings to the National Center for Missing and
Exploited Children, which is in turn charged with forwarding that report to
the appropriate police agency.
When adopting its data retention rules, the European Parliament approved
U.K.-backed requirements saying that communications providers in its 25
member countries-several of which had enacted their own data retention laws
already-must retain customer data for a minimum of six months and a maximum
of two years.
The Europe-wide requirement applies to a wide variety of "traffic" and
"location" data, including: the identities of the customers' correspondents;
the date, time and duration of phone calls, VoIP (voice over Internet
Protocol) calls or e-mail messages; and the location of the device used for
the communications. But the "content" of the communications is not supposed
to be retained. The rules are expected to take effect in 2008.



 
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Mark McIntyre
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      10-18-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:03:48 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:33:03 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in,

>
>Hi Mark,
>
>I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
>reverse lookup on the Internet


At least in the UK, this is *******s. Even if its true for phone
numbers it categorically is NOT true for IP addresses. You really
really need to learn about this stuff, instead of watching CSI and
imagining that fantasy where they websearch some dude from his
chatroom handle is for real.

>Having one person be able to identify you vs having ten thousand be able to
>identify you lets in a lot of kooks, don't you think?


FCOL.

Either you're a fool or a knave, I know not which.
--
Mark McIntyre
 
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Mark McIntyre
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      10-18-2006
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>QUESTION:
>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?


No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. For the duration
of your connection, your MAC (irrespective of what it was) was linked
in the ISP's DHCP database to your IP. If this didn't happen, then no
communication could take place between your computer and any servers.

If someone subpoena'ed your ISP, they would provide a list of the MACs
that connected from your line, and the IPs the MACs got. But the point
is, they need to subpoena your records,and for that they need to show
probable cause. How likely is that?

--
Mark McIntyre
 
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