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Is the war between DVD-R and DVD+R over yet? Who won?

 
 
aniramca@yahoo.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-02-2006
Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
few questions about these formats
- Which one was the one first to come out?
- When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
- Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
- In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
record or to play?
- Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
- Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
invested one format over the other).
I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
to record from TV.
- When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
- Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
(permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.

I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.

 
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BR549
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-02-2006
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
> I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
> few questions about these formats
> - Which one was the one first to come out?
> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
> it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
> - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
> - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
> one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
> such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
> record or to play?
> - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
> came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
> - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
> capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
> inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
> vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
> DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
> both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
> invested one format over the other).
> I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
> both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
> to record from TV.
> - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
> using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
> LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
> play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
> scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
> - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
> the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
> gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
> (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
> grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
>
> I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
> the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
> winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
> more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
>


I didn't think there ever was a war going on. To answer some of your
questions, here is a copy and paste from vcdhelp.com:

DVD-R and DVD-RW
DVD-R was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with
standalone DVD Players.
DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 93% of all
DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 80% of all
DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD-R and DVD-RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
and double sided 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
These formats are supported by DVDForum.

DVD+R and DVD+RW
DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 89% of all
DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 79% of all DVD
Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD+R and DVD+RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
and double side 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.

DVD+R DL
DVD+R DL or called DVD+R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD+R. The dual layered
discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered double
sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-1.

DVD-R DL
DVD-R DL or called DVD-R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD-R. The dual layered
discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered double
sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-1.


 
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Stuart Miller
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2006

"BR549" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:3Nmch.6489$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>> Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
>> I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
>> few questions about these formats
>> - Which one was the one first to come out?
>> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
>> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
>> it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
>> - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
>> - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
>> one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
>> such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
>> record or to play?
>> - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
>> came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
>> - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
>> capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
>> inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
>> vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
>> DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
>> both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
>> invested one format over the other).
>> I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
>> both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
>> to record from TV.
>> - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
>> using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
>> LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
>> play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
>> scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
>> - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
>> the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
>> gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
>> (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
>> grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
>>
>> I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
>> the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
>> winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
>> more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
>>

>
> I didn't think there ever was a war going on. To answer some of your
> questions, here is a copy and paste from vcdhelp.com:
>
> DVD-R and DVD-RW
> DVD-R was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with
> standalone DVD Players.
> DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 93% of
> all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
> DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 80% of all
> DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
> DVD-R and DVD-RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
> and double sided 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
> These formats are supported by DVDForum.
>
> DVD+R and DVD+RW
> DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 89% of
> all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
> DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 79% of all DVD
> Players and most DVD-ROMs.
> DVD+R and DVD+RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
> and double side 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
> These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.
>
> DVD+R DL
> DVD+R DL or called DVD+R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD+R. The dual
> layered discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered
> double sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-1.
>
> DVD-R DL
> DVD-R DL or called DVD-R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD-R. The dual
> layered discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered
> double sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-1.
>
>

Here are some opinions I have collected from various sources. I have NOT
verified that the information here is accurate.
For cd's, there is cd-r and cd-rw. There is an internatinal standard and
licencing system for that.
Note that the separator is a hypnen, not a minus sign

dvd (digital versatile disk) has dvd-r and dvd-rw, same as above
note the dvd logo on packaging and on the dvd's themselves

dvd+r and +rw is apparently an attempt to produce media and players which do
not conform to the markering/licencing agreement above. Not using the
standard? then no royalites to pay. Note that dvd+rw does not display the
dvd logo.
My dvd burner accepts both standards.
My stand alone dvd recorder will only burn to dvd+r or +rw, but will play
both

Surface scratches come from human (or pet) handling of the disks. They are
on the protective surface, not the recording surface, but can interfere with
playback.

There is some question of the permanence of data on burned dvd's. Some
people claim that rw's can start to lose data after a years or two. After
all, they are not intended to be 'permanent'. And they also claim that dvd-r
can loose data after a number of years. I suggest you make up your own mind
on this.

About blu-ray - this may be good for a viewable item such as a video, where
nicks and scratches form momentary blurs on the screen, but consider the
amount of data in a square millimeter of disk space - if you lose that area,
you may lose many important data files. Plus, I doubt that anyone would have
20 gigs of volatile data to backup on a regular basis. For me, I'm not
interested in high definition tv or videos, so I am not investigating the
high density formats.

Last time I looked, there are only a few actual manufacturers of dvd's - but
there are many brands. There is a utility (dvdinfo) that reads the disk id
track and reports what is actually there. My TDK disks report as made by
Ricoh, My Memorex disks as Infodisc.

There are also utilities whch apparently can make a dvd+rw look like a
dvd-rw. I think it is called setting book type on dvd.


Stuart


 
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Gene E. Bloch
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2006
On 12/02/2006, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) posted this:

[...]

> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
> it).


Entirely different.

The data on (re)writable DVDs is almost literally burned by a laser,
which causes changes in the media to create data 0s and 1s. The data on
a commercial DVD (CD also) is pressed.

By a process I don't know much about, the data bits on the recording to
be are converted into pinholes for 0s and non-pinholes for 1s (or
vice-versa). This master with its pinholes is made into a negative mold
which is used to mold corresponding pinholes into a sheet of plastic,
and the sheet is then plated with metal and a protective layer of
plastic. Now you just have to add the label, put it into a box, and
sell it.

The above is correct in broad outline, but not exact in the details.

[...]

(Other posters in this thread addressed your other questions.)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")


 
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Little Red Hen
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2006

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
> I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
> few questions about these formats
> - Which one was the one first to come out?
> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
> it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
> - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
> - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
> one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
> such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
> record or to play?
> - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
> came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
> - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
> capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
> inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
> vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
> DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
> both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
> invested one format over the other).
> I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
> both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
> to record from TV.
> - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
> using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
> LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
> play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
> scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
> - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
> the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
> gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
> (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
> grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
>
> I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
> the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
> winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
> more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
>


"When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R?"

Neither - commercial (bought) DVDs of movies etc are pressed like vinyls not
burnt like DVD-R or DVD+R.


 
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Gilgamesh
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2006
"Little Red Hen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8Asch.1697$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>> Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
>> I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
>> few questions about these formats
>> - Which one was the one first to come out?
>> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
>> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
>> it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
>> - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
>> - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
>> one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
>> such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
>> record or to play?
>> - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
>> came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
>> - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
>> capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
>> inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
>> vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
>> DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
>> both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
>> invested one format over the other).
>> I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
>> both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
>> to record from TV.
>> - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
>> using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
>> LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
>> play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
>> scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
>> - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
>> the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
>> gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
>> (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
>> grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
>>
>> I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
>> the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
>> winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
>> more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
>>

>
> "When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R?"
>
> Neither - commercial (bought) DVDs of movies etc are pressed like vinyls
> not burnt like DVD-R or DVD+R.


Unless its a pirate

>
>



 
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Mark B.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2006
Who cares? There are burners that can burn +/-R and +/-RW.

I'm far more interested in how the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray will end. I have no
interest in a hi-def player until 1) prices drop substantially and 2)
there's either a standard established or there are players compatible with
both.

Mark


 
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(PeteCresswell)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-04-2006
Per Stuart Miller:
>Plus, I doubt that anyone would have
>20 gigs of volatile data to backup on a regular basis.


I'd guess that many people with photo albums and music collections would exceed
that easily.

My full data backups run over 70 gigs... and that's nothing special - just a
bunch of photos and a 60-gig iPod...
--
PeteCresswell
 
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Stuart Miller
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-04-2006

"(PeteCresswell)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Per Stuart Miller:
>>Plus, I doubt that anyone would have
>>20 gigs of volatile data to backup on a regular basis.

>
> I'd guess that many people with photo albums and music collections would
> exceed
> that easily.
>
> My full data backups run over 70 gigs... and that's nothing special - just
> a
> bunch of photos and a 60-gig iPod...
> --
> PeteCresswell


Agreed. I have about a 200 gig backup, but none of it is volatile. Digital
pics, music, family videos, static things
The volatile stuff - documents, new pics, etc is actually quit small, and
backs up to cd- r or dvd-r in a few minutes.
When I get all the new pics properly labelled and indexed, then I re-do the
main backup.

Stuart




 
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(PeteCresswell)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-04-2006
Per Stuart Miller:
>The volatile stuff - documents, new pics, etc is actually quit small, and
>backs up to cd- r or dvd-r in a few minutes.
>When I get all the new pics properly labelled and indexed, then I re-do the
>main backup.


Sounds like you're just doing file copys.

If so, how do you identify the change files?
--
PeteCresswell
 
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