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Hosted VOIP PABX

 
 
Ivor Jones
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      10-03-2006
"Peter Gradwell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:45227204$0$632$(E-Mail Removed)
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > "pbscott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com
> > > Looking into Hosted VOIP PABX's, and one suggest
> > > contacts Thanks
> > >
> > > Peter

> >
> > You could try http://www.gradwell.com/voip/
> >
> > Good reputation and the MD posts here sometimes.
> >

>
>
> Yes, we have a good few thousand customers on centrex.
>
> cheers
> peter


Looked into it but it's a bit OTT for my requirements. The link to/from
Sipgate is now working ok anyway, thanks Peter..!

Ivor


 
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RH
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      10-04-2006
"pbscott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Looking into Hosted VOIP PABX's, and one suggest contacts
> Thanks
>
> Peter


It depends what you want, Some charge quite a big monthly fee for all
features, where as others such as voipfone charge on a basis of what you
need you pay for such as IVR etc
so If you looking for just a simple system with a couple of extensions,
voipfone is probably best value


 
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hairydog@despammed.com
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      10-04-2006
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:19:58 GMT, "Harry Stottle"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>As I understand it, if a service is offered to the general public, VAT
>inclusive prices must be stated


As I understand it, the word "primarily" is in there.

>in all advertising,


Just advertising to the general public.

>and if they are not,
>the company cannot charge more than the advertised price.


No, that's utter drivel. The rules are about how you display prices.
They do not control what you can charge.

For example, I could offer to sell you a new Mercedes for 100, but
when you attempt to take me up on that offer, I decline your proposed
contract and ask 80,000 instead. That would be entirely legal and you
have the choice of accepting the 80,000 deal or not buying.

However, if I'd advertised it as a Mercedes for 100 I would have
published a misleading advertisement. The advertising would not have
been entirely legal, but that would not prevent me setting a higher
price.

Gradwell primarily markets its services to businesses, and so is quite
in order to advertise the ex-VAT prices. Presumably anyone with a
computer and a web browser will have a calculator, but if not, there
is always the option of Google:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=7.00+*+1.175

 
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Harry Stottle
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      10-05-2006

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:19:58 GMT, "Harry Stottle"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>As I understand it, if a service is offered to the general public, VAT
>>inclusive prices must be stated

>
> As I understand it, the word "primarily" is in there.
>
>>in all advertising,

>
> Just advertising to the general public.
>
>>and if they are not,
>>the company cannot charge more than the advertised price.

>
> No, that's utter drivel. The rules are about how you display prices.
> They do not control what you can charge.


<snip irelevant information about buying a car>

We are discussing VAT charges, and if they should be displayed fully
inclusive with the advertised prices of goods and services, for items
offered for sale to non business customers. From what I have now read on
this subject, it seems that it is illegal, when including a price in an
advert, to advertise goods or services to non business customers without
stating a VAT inclusive price, and this appears to be at any stage in
the purchasing process, so if you cannot legally advertise an item, or
service, to non business customers without a VAT inclusive price, it
then follows that any prices advertised must be the total price the
company can charge, inclusive of VAT, hence my previous statement about
the company not being able to charge more than the advertised price.

>
> Gradwell primarily markets its services to businesses, and so is quite
> in order to advertise the ex-VAT prices. Presumably anyone with a
> computer and a web browser will have a calculator, but if not, there
> is always the option of Google:
> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=7.00+*+1.175
>


Again, from what I have read, even if a company is primarily targeting
business customers, this does not excuse them from their obligations
when advertising, or selling, to non business customers.
This type of legislation was brought in to protect consumers against
misleading advertising, where some companies tried to make their prices
seem lower than other companies by not including VAT, even though the
consumer had no way to purchase those goods, or services, without paying
VAT, (unlike a business customer who could claim back the VAT). It
should not be up to the customer to have to work out what the actual
price is, including VAT, the inclusive price should be clearly stated.

Considering the heavy fines that can be imposed for companies not
complying with the appropriate legislation, if I was running a business,
I would want to make sure that I did comply, even if available
information provided about the legislation often seems confusing, and
sometimes misleading.



 
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hairydog@despammed.com
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      10-07-2006
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:52:37 GMT, "Harry Stottle"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

><snip irelevant information about buying a car>


It was relevant, because it was clarifying the principle. However, if
you can't even spell irrelevant, perhaps you didn't grasp that?
>
>We are discussing VAT charges, and if they should be displayed fully
>inclusive with the advertised prices of goods and services, for items
>offered for sale to non business customers. From what I have now read on
>this subject, it seems that it is illegal, when including a price in an
>advert, to advertise goods or services to non business customers without
>stating a VAT inclusive price, and this appears to be at any stage in
>the purchasing process,


There you have it. "to advertise goods or services to non business
customers". Gradwell is a company that offers services to businesses.
Their website is targeted at businesses. Are you really suggesting
that there is a significant market for domestic PABX systems?

The main heading of their home page has three bits: email,
web_hosting, business_voip - which suggests that their target market
for voip is businesses.

Having said that, I do agree that the bit of their site that is
labeled "VoIP for single users" ..."to use VoIP at home to keep in
touch with friends and family here and overseas." seems to be targeted
at non-business users, and there is no mention that the quoted prices
don't include VAT. You have to search quite hard to find that out.

However, it looks very much like Gradwell paid a lot of money for that
very pretty but useless website, and maybe didn't have a lot of say
about how it was done.

You may be concerned that it isn't clear about VAT, but others might
find the fact that it fails to meet even the basic requirements of the
DDA more of a problem. Needless to say, the html and css both fail
validation as well, and it is coded in such a way that it will never
do well with search engines.

Gradwell were clearly conned by slick sales people. Sorry Peter, but
it's true. You should have googled for website specialists.

 
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Harry Stottle
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      10-07-2006

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:52:37 GMT, "Harry Stottle"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>><snip irelevant information about buying a car>

>
> It was relevant, because it was clarifying the principle. However, if
> you can't even spell irrelevant, perhaps you didn't grasp that?
>>
>>We are discussing VAT charges, and if they should be displayed fully
>>inclusive with the advertised prices of goods and services, for items
>>offered for sale to non business customers. From what I have now read
>>on
>>this subject, it seems that it is illegal, when including a price in
>>an
>>advert, to advertise goods or services to non business customers
>>without
>>stating a VAT inclusive price, and this appears to be at any stage in
>>the purchasing process,

>
> There you have it. "to advertise goods or services to non business
> customers". Gradwell is a company that offers services to businesses.
> Their website is targeted at businesses. Are you really suggesting
> that there is a significant market for domestic PABX systems?
>
> The main heading of their home page has three bits: email,
> web_hosting, business_voip - which suggests that their target market
> for voip is businesses.
>
> Having said that, I do agree that the bit of their site that is
> labeled "VoIP for single users" ..."to use VoIP at home to keep in
> touch with friends and family here and overseas." seems to be targeted
> at non-business users, and there is no mention that the quoted prices
> don't include VAT. You have to search quite hard to find that out.
>
> However, it looks very much like Gradwell paid a lot of money for that
> very pretty but useless website, and maybe didn't have a lot of say
> about how it was done.
>
> You may be concerned that it isn't clear about VAT, but others might
> find the fact that it fails to meet even the basic requirements of the
> DDA more of a problem. Needless to say, the html and css both fail
> validation as well, and it is coded in such a way that it will never
> do well with search engines.
>
> Gradwell were clearly conned by slick sales people. Sorry Peter, but
> it's true. You should have googled for website specialists.
>


Perhaps Peter Gradwell should forward this thread to Bath Trading
Standards, and let them comment on the legality of Gradwell's
advertising, pricing, and website, in general.


 
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Ivor Jones
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      10-07-2006
"Harry Stottle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:kLVVg.13619$(E-Mail Removed)
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...


[snip]

> > Gradwell were clearly conned by slick sales people.
> > Sorry Peter, but it's true. You should have googled for
> > website specialists.

>
> Perhaps Peter Gradwell should forward this thread to Bath
> Trading Standards, and let them comment on the legality
> of Gradwell's advertising, pricing, and website, in
> general.


Personally, I find the Gradwell website to be quite good. Not the best
I've come across, but certainly not the worst. If I have any criticism at
all, it's that I personally find the user interface for the single line
VoIP account to be a little hard to negotiate, but it's usable.

Ivor


 
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