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Saved web pages disappear?

 
 
MikeyMuchos
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      10-04-2006
Hi,
I've noticed several times before, that some web pages saved locally
into a directory will at some later date disappear leaving only an
empty "*_files" folder. This seems to happen most frequently after a
system restore, even if the files have been archived on another drive.

Recently I've been saving some building materials prices info for a job
I'm planning. When this disappeared it was quite a loss of time and
effort. Please can anyone tell me what's happening here and how to keep
these pages intact?

TIA
Mike

 
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Andy Dingley
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      10-04-2006

MikeyMuchos wrote:

> some web pages saved locally into a directory will at some later date
> disappear leaving only an empty "*_files" folder.


When Chuck Norris saves web pages, they stay saved.

What are you using to store yours? Have you considered upgrading to
Chuck Norris?
If you don't, you may be only seconds away from a fatal downloading
experience.


Seriously, "saved" web pages are those that are deliberately exported
from some web user agent or other and they're placed into the
filesystem where nothing else should ever touch them. If you're
stretching the meaning of "saved" to mean "I noticed my browser was
already caching them somewhere automatically" then this just isn't
reliable. The browser doesn't know you've also taken an interest in
them, so naturally it purges them after time because _it_ has finished
with them.

If you store them under some "temp" directory, then all bets are off.
Put them somewhere you understand, where _you_ know where they are.

I don't know what a "System Restore" is, but it sounds like some
ghastly Windows feeature for updating to a fresh set of bugs. If
they're involved, anything could happen. Nothing under those Windows
"My Directory" paths can be trusted, because Windows is too fond of
changing your identity and moving you to a whole clean new set. If you
start looking from "C:\Documents and Settings\" though, you might find
they're still there under another account name.

 
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MikeyMuchos
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      10-04-2006

Andy Dingley wrote:

> MikeyMuchos wrote:
>
> > some web pages saved locally into a directory will at some later date
> > disappear leaving only an empty "*_files" folder.

>
> When Chuck Norris saves web pages, they stay saved.


Is Chuck Norris Looking for a needy friend?

> What are you using to store yours?

I'm clicking on File>Save page as... in WinXP. A method that seems to
works for the saving of other files, even HTML ones, until the
mysterious disappearances take place.

>Have you considered upgrading to Chuck Norris?


Not until now. I'm sure my wife will be most enthusiastic though. That
is unless Chuck is now as old, bald and decrepit as some of his
contemporaries.


> If you don't, you may be only seconds away from a fatal downloading experience.


OK, I'll Chuck it.

> Seriously, "saved" web pages are those that are deliberately exported
> from some web user agent or other and they're placed into the
> filesystem where nothing else should ever touch them. If you're
> stretching the meaning of "saved" to mean "I noticed my browser was
> already caching them somewhere automatically" then this just isn't
> reliable. The browser doesn't know you've also taken an interest in
> them, so naturally it purges them after time because _it_ has finished
> with them.


I see what you mean but I'm referring to a standard "File > Save"
operation

> If you store them under some "temp" directory, then all bets are off.
> Put them somewhere you understand, where _you_ know where they are.


I do, for instance: FileLib>Building>Heating>Boilers>Potterton

> I don't know what a "System Restore" is, but it sounds like some
> ghastly Windows feeature for updating to a fresh set of bugs.


That's basically the one, except perhaps it's returning to an old set
of bugs

>If they're involved, anything could happen. Nothing under those Windows
> "My Directory" paths can be trusted, because Windows is too fond of
> changing your identity and moving you to a whole clean new set.


Sounds most appealing, in many ways. I usually store files in
directories within my own structured filing system. Seems to work fine
for most items.

>If you start looking from "C:\Documents and Settings\" though, you might find
> they're still there under another account name.


That sounds attractively Alice in Wonderland. If only computing had
turned out to be so much fun.

Thanks,
Mike

 
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Andy Dingley
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      10-04-2006

MikeyMuchos wrote:

> > What are you using to store yours?

> I'm clicking on File>Save page as... in WinXP.


Sounds like you're using IE ?

Suggestion: Get a better browser anyway (like Firefox)

For one thing, IE won't even save pages accurately. It modifies them
internally, changing doctypes and adding some bogus "saved from"
metadata. This is extremely annoying if you're a web developer,
because these changes can be enough to break a page. However M$oft's
benevolent dictatorship decrees that they know best and we don't need
to worry our fluffy little heads about these details...

Sorry, I can't help you with your specific problem. I personally
wouldn't trust IE further than I could drop-kick Steve Balmer (but I'm
always up for a challenge).

 
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Brian Cryer
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      10-04-2006
"MikeyMuchos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Hi,
> I've noticed several times before, that some web pages saved locally
> into a directory will at some later date disappear leaving only an
> empty "*_files" folder. This seems to happen most frequently after a
> system restore, even if the files have been archived on another drive.
>
> Recently I've been saving some building materials prices info for a job
> I'm planning. When this disappeared it was quite a loss of time and
> effort. Please can anyone tell me what's happening here and how to keep
> these pages intact?


I am not aware of any mechanism on Windows that will remove your saved web
pages. I have saved web pages dating back to February this year, and other
than when I do a tidy up I've never known them to disappear.

What is the full path to where you are saving them? because if its a
temporary folder then its possible that some process is tidying them up for
you.

Do you have any applications/utilities running that try to "spring-clean"
your disk for you? (i.e. which try to delete old files to recover disk
space?)

On a different note, do you backup your pc? If you have files that are
disappearing, and you know they've disappeared then you should be able to
recover them from your backup. I backup my pc using three external usb
disks, which I rotate once a week - simple and convenient, but it means I
can only go back two weeks ...
--
Brian Cryer
www.cryer.co.uk/brian


 
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MikeyMuchos
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      10-04-2006

Andy Dingley wrote:

> MikeyMuchos wrote:
>
> > > What are you using to store yours?

> > I'm clicking on File>Save page as... in WinXP.

>
> Sounds like you're using IE ?


Only when there's no other option, which is rarely.
> Suggestion: Get a better browser anyway (like Firefox)


The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
the browser.

> For one thing, IE won't even save pages accurately. It modifies them
> internally, changing doctypes and adding some bogus "saved from"
> metadata. This is extremely annoying if you're a web developer,
> because these changes can be enough to break a page. However M$oft's
> benevolent dictatorship decrees that they know best and we don't need
> to worry our fluffy little heads about these details...


It's not like the pages are duff or changed, they're just not there.
Only the ghost of a *_files
directory remains.

> Sorry, I can't help you with your specific problem. I personally
> wouldn't trust IE further than I could drop-kick Steve Balmer (but I'm
> always up for a challenge).


Steve Balmer may be quite keen on that sort of activity. If so, I hope
you both have a great time. Thanks for the input, It's appreciated.

Mike

 
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Andy Dingley
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      10-04-2006

MikeyMuchos wrote:

> The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
> the browser.


So exactly where are you putting them? Sounds like its Windows that's
garbage collecting them, rather than IE.

 
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MikeyMuchos
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      10-04-2006

Brian Cryer wrote:

[...]
> What is the full path to where you are saving them? because if its a
> temporary folder then its possible that some process is tidying them up for
> you.


E:\FileLib\Building\Heating\Boilers
is a typical example, where E: is a partition on the same drive as the
system partition.
Certainly no temp folders involved there. The disappearances have
happened in several similar locations, so it's not confined to one
directory.

> Do you have any applications/utilities running that try to "spring-clean"
> your disk for you? (i.e. which try to delete old files to recover disk
> space?)


I don't think anything like this is running by default and I don't use
such extreme clean-up features knowingly. I can find nothing in the
CCleaner config that indicates that this removal would occur.


> On a different note, do you backup your pc? If you have files that are
> disappearing, and you know they've disappeared then you should be able to
> recover them from your backup. I backup my pc using three external usb
> disks, which I rotate once a week - simple and convenient, but it means I
> can only go back two weeks ...


I do often back-up the system partition and the partition where I
install programs. I haven't been backing up storage areas with quite
the same frequency, but I'll have to start doing that now.

Thanks for the advice,
Mike

 
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MikeyMuchos
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-04-2006

Andy Dingley wrote:

> MikeyMuchos wrote:
>
> > The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
> > the browser.

>
> So exactly where are you putting them?


In various user defined folders on a storage partition

>Sounds like its Windows that's
> garbage collecting them, rather than IE.


Thanks
I'll have to try a windows xp newsgroup with some questions on that.

Thanks for the help.
Mike

 
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Joy
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-09-2006
"MikeyMuchos" <(E-Mail Removed)> graced us with the following in
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com:

>
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>
>> MikeyMuchos wrote:
>>
>> > The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
>> > the browser.

>>
>> So exactly where are you putting them?

>
> In various user defined folders on a storage partition
>
>>Sounds like its Windows that's
>> garbage collecting them, rather than IE.

>
> Thanks
> I'll have to try a windows xp newsgroup with some questions on that.
>
> Thanks for the help.
> Mike
>
>


Save them in a folder under "C:\" on your HD
and rename the extension ".txt" and see what happens on a
Windows Restore. You can always rename to .htm or .html

Also use the "Save As" option from the file menu on your web browser.
I always edit web pages with a text editor and then refresh the pages
to see the difference whether editing a html or css ... etc.
 
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