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JVM/Java memory footprint

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In article <45c221d6$0$764$(E-Mail Removed)>, Alex Hunsley
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>nukleus wrote:

>[snip lots of rant]

Lots of stamp?

>If you don't like the help here, you could demand back the money you
>paid for it...


>> And what CAN you expect from those people?

>Once people get over their self-entitlement trip

What is "self-entitlement trip"?

Is it from those "help" files trip?

>(the one that have such
>a thing), people often find help.

I am not sure you understand what I am saying,
and this is not an issue with this group only.
It is the issue just about everywhere you look.

The issue is this:

When someone needs assistance,
it is OBVIOUS they do not know enough,
pretty much by definition.

Now, instead of telling them "go look up some
other pile of you know what by now", why not
take your time and explain the tricky parts
of the issue. Do you realize that your articles
are in my archives going back at least half a
year and they are available globally via Google
for the VERY least.

And, being as smart as your very first sentence
states, talking about "rants", do you have
enough active neurons in your cockpit to comprehend
that if you give an in-depth response,
not only will you help one particular individual,
but you'll cover the issue FOREVER, be it only
YOUR own version. Then some other "expert"
can do just the same and on the same thread,
and, by the time we are thru with that thread,
you gave a globally distributed version
that finally talks human language and covers the

Do I need to chew more, mr. smart?

And I have seen what kinda help people provide.
They are like hoarding something and are just
sending people from one pile of you know what
by now, to another.

And the thing could be finished literally taking
a few minutes of your time. Finished COMPLETELY
pretty much.


You could make your own archive of your own
geniououous revelations, and simply repost it
need be, if the same issue arises again.
You could also make your supersexy web page
and show how great you REALLY are by simply
pushing a button and automatically generating
the supersexy web pages and an index of your
great discoveries.

And what are you doing instead?

Trying to make a FOOL out of me?
Trying to tell me that you, high priests,
are not going to give me your opinion on
something that is the issues for me right now?



Because the opinions I've got so far,
were nothing more that pointers,
which means...

Which means my time could be better spent
by simply going directly to those piles of garbage
they call documentation and dig up their source
code, project files, etc. and finally realizing
where that screw up was, just like i did with
Borland JBuilter the other day.

It turns out that their own project configuration
files do not reconcile with sources. I do not wish
to waste another sentence on telling you where and how.

Get the drift?

Oki, doki.


Whats next fer breakfast?

>More so if they're willing learn a bit
>about the group and follow some suggestions.

I know enough about usenet to the point that
you look to me like clueless with your
whining. And about what?

You have a "problem" with me personally?
Are you going to teach me how the planets turn?

This is EXACTLY what i was telling you in my post.
You see, you have your own ideas of "manners"
and how people SHOULD!!!! behave
when they come to the royal highness of your kind
and creed. And you will be TEACHING them something
that has to do NOTHING with what they came here for
on the first place.

Instead of addressing a specific issue,
you will be engaging in this rotten guilt instillation
trip, like you are nothing less than a Son of God,
having all the answers to how life force operates.

Sorry, I dont know you enough.
But I can push a couple of buttons here.
Hang on, the breakpoint is hit...


Just kidding, just to show you your relative significance
in the scheme of things.


You just pick the subject and i will produce you
all your great deeds on this group within a minute
and post it here in bulk if you wish. AUTOMATICALLY.
You see?

Do you know me to make these childish judgements.

Some of you, arrogant "experts" with pious faces
are even telling me they are getting fed up
because my posts are too long.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Do you, experts, know the simpliest usenet principle?
Well, if you don't like it, don't read it.
Don't follow up on it, and just forget about it.

I don't need your morality lectures,
cause, first of all, i do not expect ANYTHING of
real value from you on the first place.
I am not dependent on you like on some oxygen

Simple enough?

And then?

>> Not only that, but you will be insulted and rediculed,

Isn't this the case?
Do you want me to produce all your priestly
brainwashing statements?

>> told that in Java, the names of routines MUST be in
>> lower case, even though Sun itself has some things
>> that start in upper case and some don't.
>> Now, what WHAT specific REASON do you have to make
>> all the method names in lower case?
>> Does it make your code MORE readable?
>> - Nope, just the other way around.

>> Does it prevent your compiler to compile this thing?
>> - Not even in the picture.
>> Does it make MORE clear what are you trying to do?
>> - Are you kidding?
>> So...
>> What IS that dictate good for?

>It's called convention. Following a widely held convention aids quick
>understanding of something (by most people).

ALL biorobots have these kinds of answers.
But this is not an answer of ANY kind,
because there is no reasoning in it,
there is only an rears licking ideology
of the herd.

One more time: During the WWII, 99.99 percent
of German people, screemed their heads of in
that nazi histeria, shouting:

Seig hail!
Seig heil!

You understand?

Can you connect these two together
without me chewing it for you?

I bet not.

So, i'll explain to the high priests of your kind
and grade:


Sorry, I don't have letters of larger size.

Now, when Jesus went to school, and the alphabet
was introduced to pupils, the teacher said:
this is alpha, this is betta, and this is...

And Jesus said: Sire, before you get to beta,
you need to explain what is alpha. What is it for,
why is it there on the first place, what makes
it different and things like that.

You understand?
Can you connect it now?

Translating: You need to use YOUR brain
to figure out what is what and who is who,
instead of ligning up in a long line and
licking i hope you know what in front of you.


You did not provide the very REASON
WHY this "convention" has ANY validity whatsoever.
All you said is just you all agree.
Not a problem at all.
You can agree that the Earth if flat.
But you know how much difference all your
agreements make to me?

Well, just a waste of time typing all this.
THAT is how much.

I STILL do not have that "help" you are promising.
And help not to me, but to YOURSELF,
mr. confused, who thinks he is to teach others
how to breathe and how to walk.

>> Just read this very group.
>> You'd be amazed if you are new to java.
>> Those poor "clueless", when they are in just about the
>> biggest problem they can imagine at the moment,
>> instead of getting assistance,
>> get a brainwashing dictates on what you MUST do!

> Helping people to make themselves more understandable isn't a bad

Bad thing.
Good thing.

That is how you are prototyped.
A simple, primitive template.
"Coca cola is good. Drink coca cola".

Is THAT the level we are talking about here?

WHO are you to help others "to make themselves more

To WHOSE ears?

Is it just because your closed mind can not tune
into the wavelength of those "clueless" and talk
THEIR language, by ANY chance?

When i read that so called documentation, and,
accidentally, look into their own source files,
i, suddenly, realize that this so called documentation
came directly from their comments before the methods
in their own source files, which means...

What do you think it means, mr. smart?


What it means to ME, is that this can not POSSIBLY
be documentation to provide to those "cluless".
Do you see the difference between specification
and documentation?

Dear mr. smart, the difference is simple enough
even for the most clueless of all to comprehend.

Specifications are written for the experts
and for those, working in the next department,
so they know exactly what this thing does.
It is a language of coded symbology, when one
definition refers to another and that one,
yet to another.

But to someone who does not know all these
technical intricacies, just about ALL this
so called documentation produces is HEADACHE.

You understand, mr. smart?

Because they had a SIMPLE question in the beginning,
and ended up being forced to learn the whole java
arthitecture. But ALL they wanted to know is how
to cath that stupid keyboard key.

Documentation, in its turn, also needs to be different.
I happen to have had a discussion with one of the
prominent people in the field, with a phd in education,
who was a vice president of one of successful companies
in Silicon Valley, USA, developing computerised educational
products, and I asked him a simple question:

Why is it the the pupil has to be forced to read the
entire book cover to cover instead of looking at things
in that book at HIS paste and according to HIS interests
and individual tendencies.

And the answer was?

Well, we did a study on this subject
and came to a conclusion
that this is very ineffective method.
It takes MORE time to learn this way.

And you know what I say?

I say: screw your "research".

The material needs to be presented on at least
three different levels.

1. Intruductory, for those "clueless",
who don't even have an idea what they are asking.
They are just beginning, and you can not give
them the design specs, written by high priests.
They'll go nuts. That is ALL you can hope to achive.

2. Once you are no longer "clueless",
and become interested in getting as much bang
for your buck in some specific issue,
the material can be expanded and made more detailed,
more in depth.

3. But once you know this thing nearly in and out,
there comes the ULTIMATE level,
when you start questioning the very roots of that
specific subject.

THAT is my education system.


When i ask you about layout,
which i NEVER had to deal with on the first place,
what kind of "help" would you provide?

Go read some OTHER pile of dogshit
they call documentation?

Then what do I need you for?

You are just about as good as a plain corrupt priest.
That is all.

Nothing more.
Nothing less.

And you know what I do to those priests with pious faces
of "holier than thouh"?

Guess, mr. smart...

And then?

>And quite a few people do get help here (of the sort you're
>mainly thinking of).

Oh, so you are not merely mr. smart,
but a subtle poisonous snake?

Do you think i can not read your insult?

One more time, at this junction, i am not even DREAMING
of getting help, which is what you meant, mr. pervert.

Seconly, what you meant, is that now your blind mind
has already been committed to some things.

You are saying that I did not formulate my questions
correctly, in enough detail and precision?

Sire, your single sentence is so full of poison,
my screen got wet here. Lemme whipe it off.

Oki doki.

And then?

>> You see?
>> MUST!

Is this true, by ANY chance?

>> And unless you do so, you are considered of an
>> "inferior race"!
>> Nothing more.
>> Nothing less...


Why did not you follow up on it?
Isn't it EXACTLY what you are doing this very moment?

>> And here, you may not even get a reply on your
>> question, just because you show these people
>> some piece of code that does not fit THEY view
>> on Universe and a life force as such.

>Get over your sense of entitlement. People help here for nothing. They
>don't get paid. The least they are entitled to is to decide what *sort*
>of advice they give, and who they reply to.

Clear to a five year old.
And then?

>And telling people why they're not having much success getting replies
>counts as helping them.

So, instead of talking THEIR language,
which is what REAL masters do,
you want THEM to talk YOUR language,
of which they know nothing to begin with.


What kind of an excersize is this?

Lemme expand it one level.

It is an excersize in SADISM,
no matter what kind of sticker you all agree
to put on it.

Yes, you can give your opinion, your advice,
share your experience, but if you take away their
freedon to express themselves in the way that is
more natural to THEM, and at THIS particular junction,
forcing them to jump up to YOUR "high" level
before you even BOTHER to give them that stinky hint,

Pretend you skipped about 5 paragraphs here.
What a pitty. Juicy material it could be.

>> Wake up, people.
>> WHAT are you doing here on the first place?
>> Why do you even bother to answer questions?
>> You see, if I am an expert, built according to YOUR
>> templates, I don't need your help. I can teach YOU,

>You think there is only one sort of problem? There are many sorts of
>problems possible. There are many ways code can be 'broken'.

I am saying that no matter what kind of problem
comes my way, and not matter how complex it is,
i'll find my way out of this maze,
and can expect VERY little from others
as most of those "professionals", just about ANY
place you look, are simply hoarding some
"secret trick" and would never tell it to anyone,
even if you paid them. Because THAT is how they
maintain their "value" in a company. That lil
nothing is the thing only THEY know, and they go
as far, as to sabotage the entire projects,
making it as difficult to others as possible.
I know this trip in and out. It is not a theory
of ANY kind.

Because these people are full of fear of survival,
and THAT is exactly why they accumulate those things
and hide them in their bag, as that gives them some
assurance that they are not going to be kicked on
their ass as they know something, the others don't
seem to know.


Or you want more?

>> and teach you using REASON, and not some dictates
>> as to how the planet Earth is to turn and where
>> is the Sun to rise in the morning.

>Reason tells us that following convention aids understanding.

You can twist it in just about ANY way you please,
but if we address the issues of nothing less than
reason itself, things are going to get even hotter.
I promise.

Did you understand what I meant by reason?
Reason versus a stupid belief, a result of agreement
on the lowest common denominator.

Reason is when you use your mind
and are not simply blinded by all the prejudice
they programmed you with.

Simple as that.

>> Is it clear enough?


We need to chew on this more?

Why don't you simply tell me what are the
tricks and boundary conditions of gridbags
and where are pitfals?

Or you'd prefer to waste ten times more time
to make a fool out of me and prove that your
priesthood is something that has validity to it?

>> I spent DAYS and still can not figure out what is the
>> problem on the first place. Just try to push the help
>> button. First of all, it'll eat up a terabyte of memory
>> and you'd be sitting there mezmerized, waithing for it
>> to stop swapping like mad and load all the stuff,
>> that is the simpliest thing in the world, just to
>> display a single help screen, which shouldn't take
>> more than a few milliseconds nowadays.

>[snip more]

>Just a little comment in the middle of that rant for you.... carry on!

This stuff isn't quite rant, mr. smart.
And it is good you say it, just the way you do.
Because, from now on, it becomes an inprint.
And inprint of what kind of "helper" you are.

And what I see is that you are but a poisonous sadist,
becase instead of addressing a SINGLE specific issue
and giving your view on that, you DELIBERATELY
witheld all your "wisdom"
and reduced the whole thing to the puppet theatre level.

Yep, mr. smart.

Btw, why did you even BOTHER to read that long post
of mine?
Are you a pervert, by ANY humble chance?

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Posts: n/a
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Lew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Alex Hunsley wrote:
>> Just a little comment in the middle of that rant for you.... carry on!

>Don't feed the trolls.

Oh, another one of those priests with pious faces,
with a rubber stamp in the hand,
making assumptions and fabrications.

Sire, i wantched you for some time.
You even happen to get on one of my lists.
Unfortunately, i'll have to take you off of it.

Sire, I suspect you consider yourself
to be the highest priest around here.

Is it true, by ANY huble chance?

Is your blood at a boiling temperare ALREADY?
Would you kindly whipe that foam from your mouth?

>- Lew

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Posts: n/a
In article <hNrwh.212507$(E-Mail Removed) >, Alex Hunsley
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Lew wrote:
>> Alex Hunsley wrote:
>>> Just a little comment in the middle of that rant for you.... carry on!

>> Don't feed the trolls.

>I don't think he/she/it it *is* a troll.

That fool is simply fabricating his poisonous lies
in his attempt to get enough ass lickers around
to start some conspiracy of the herd, yelling:

Zig hail!
ZIg heil!

>Just misguided.

Oh, that is a pleasant surprise.

So we even have guides here.
Thats refreshing.

>I'm not losing
>any sleep over it...

Btw, why would you even bother to follow up
on this?

Any particular reason?
Or just killing time of your life?

No wonder those kids that come here to ask
a simple question and, instead of getting an answer,
get a pile of brainwashing propaganda
and, simply tell you into your faces:

"Go **** yourself".

And split.

Is THAT the goal of the education system around here?

Is it some kind of a passport?

"Either you become like us,
or you are not going to get a single word
on the point of your question,
and we will gather around
to laugh at you, clueless"?

Am I missing something here?


Are you trying to get enough ass lickers here
and start a conspiracy of taking over nothing
less than big-8? Or is this some kind of an
equivalent of a Bohemian Grove?
Ever heard?

I can show you da way to the REAL power.
You know what I mean?

What are you sitting here, wasting away for?
You could be rulers of entire big-8!!!

You know what big-8 is, by ANY humble chance?

Good luck,
and don't forget to have a good hearty lick
on that fat ass in front of you,
cause at the moment, HE is closer to that sweet fruit
you've been craving for your entire lives.

You, people, are pathetic, you see?
Because you are wasting 99% of your energy
on the issues of morality
in a TECHNICAL group.

And, in a technical group, if you are creative
to ANY extent, you don't have that luxury
of wasting your life on morality,
because you have too much fun dealing

Makes sense?

Planet Earth,
Planet Earth,

Oh, that static again?

How unfortunate,
you need it all too bad at the moment.

I almost thoght of promoting some of you
and making something useful out of this
lil game you play here,
but now i'd have to think about it again.

Zorry to tellya that.

Btw, have you noticed what is the name of this thread?


Do you have any comments on this topic?

Or my original post does not have enough
specific issues they blue blooded of your kind
could even begin to address?

What do you think about that footprint?

>> - Lew

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Alex Hunsley
Posts: n/a
nukleus wrote:
> In article <hNrwh.212507$(E-Mail Removed) >, Alex Hunsley
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Lew wrote:
>>> Alex Hunsley wrote:
>>>> Just a little comment in the middle of that rant for you.... carry on!
>>> Don't feed the trolls.

>> I don't think he/she/it it *is* a troll.

> That fool is simply fabricating his poisonous lies
> in his attempt to get enough ass lickers around
> to start some conspiracy of the herd, yelling:
> Zig hail!
> ZIg heil!

Sorry Lew, you were right in calling 'troll'.
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Posts: n/a
In article <mfxwh.213699$(E-Mail Removed) >, Alex Hunsley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>nukleus wrote:
>> In article <hNrwh.212507$(E-Mail Removed) >, Alex Hunsley
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> Lew wrote:
>>>> Alex Hunsley wrote:
>>>>> Just a little comment in the middle of that rant for you.... carry on!
>>>> Don't feed the trolls.
>>> I don't think he/she/it it *is* a troll.

>> That fool is simply fabricating his poisonous lies
>> in his attempt to get enough ass lickers around
>> to start some conspiracy of the herd, yelling:
>> Zig hail!
>> ZIg heil!

>Sorry Lew, you were right in calling 'troll'.

You forgot to say: lick, lick.
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Daniel Pitts
Posts: n/a
On Feb 1, 5:22 pm, (E-Mail Removed) (nukleus) wrote:
> In article <45c221d6$0$764$(E-Mail Removed)>, Alex Hunsley
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >nukleus wrote:
> >[snip lots of rant]

> Lots of stamp?
> >If you don't like the help here, you could demand back the money you
> >paid for it...

> I DEMAND IT!!!!!

[snip more rant]

What's the word I'm looking for?
Oh yeah, *plonk*

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Posts: n/a
In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>, "Daniel
Pitts" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Feb 1, 5:22 pm, (E-Mail Removed) (nukleus) wrote:
>> In article <45c221d6$0$764$(E-Mail Removed)>, Alex Hunsley
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >nukleus wrote:
>> >[snip lots of rant]

>> Lots of stamp?
>> >If you don't like the help here, you could demand back the money you
>> >paid for it...

>> I DEMAND IT!!!!!

>[snip more rant]

Yep, considering that your sense of humor
is on the par with my fridge, what else
would I expect you to leave in the post?

What are you foaming at the mouth about,
mr. smart?

>What's the word I'm looking for?
>Oh yeah, *plonk*

EXACTLY. Just like just about all of those
high priests eventually do.

You see, for some strange reason, it is not
enough for you to simply set your filters
and be done with it.

Nope. You have to come here and announce
to the whole world what an intolerant
blood boiling idiot you are, while, at the same
time, thinking it makes you "superior",
just by the mere fact that you announced
your foolish "plonk" thing. Do you realize
how much do I care about your "plonks"?

And the most amazing thing about this
is that you are also perverts, inevitably so,
because most of you, if not all, simply
use this stupid template of announcing your
plonk, but in actuality, you are still reading
those, you claim to have plonked, and I
have seen PLENTY of those cases. And it goes
as far, as once in a while, you even follow
up on the their posts. Because you could be
made to dance to just about any tune there is,
and, eventually, can not contain hiding in the back
and pretending you are not seeing it all.
Once you are tickled enough, you will appear
out of nowhere. See?

Because, first of all, by plonking me, YOU
are at a disadvantage, cause I can read your
posts if I want to, but you can not read mine.
So, from now on, no matter how much fun I can
have with you, showing your great achievements,
and laughing my rears of at you, you wont be able
to even know that you might have become
but a laughing stock.


I do not have, never had, and have no plans
to "plonk" anyone, even the most outrageous idiots,
cause I know how to use my "next" button. And quite
often, those I should have "plonked", turn out to
be the about the finniest posts one can find.

Btw, what is the Subject header of this thread?
Why are you posting all this stuff being UTTERLY
off topic?

Are you a troll?

This is a technical group and you claim to have
more than but a few broken neurons on line.
Can't you figure out the simpliest thing of this grade?

Or you, "experts" around here, think this group
BELONGS to you and YOU are here to do whatever YOU
please, regardless of your own netti-quetti-betti-fetti,
you yourselves claim to follow, or equivalent thereof
with all your "thou shalt not do this, and thou shalt not
do that" stuff?




You want more?

Or shell I let you talk to my monkey?

Now, back to the topic of this thread:

What i found out is that in order for you to
run a simple program, which only does things like

int foo = 1,

what would all your super-advanced technoly
of delayed just about everything do?

Well, if you set a brake point on main(),
and then start up your app, you may be unpleasantly
surprised, that before your breakpoint is hit,
some heavy duty time has to elapse, and that is just
about the first thing i have noticed when i tried
to run the code i interited. For some strange reason,
it would take it a long time to evan come up.
When I looked at processes and resources,
i was not so pleasantly surprized to see that by
the time I select my first choice from the menu,
before actually doing anything, it swallowed
about 20 megs. For what?

Well, it turns out that before you main() gets hit,
you, royal architects, have to load the entire
bloatware, called JVM.

And even though that simpliest program that does not
even do anything consists of a single CPU instruction,
taking 1 clock cycle, for some strange reason, you
have to load the whole universe.

For what?

Well, because it is called JVM.
Bloatware that is.
It can't use the same concepts that are used
in virtual memory management, called page fault
and bring up only those things, it actually needs
this very moment, it seems.

True, I haven't investigated this issue to the end,
and I hardly need to, because I see the run time
results without even figuring out why is it so

And I bet you, if you run several java apps,
you'd be loading the same JVM again and again,
despite the fact that they can't even talk to
each other without going outside the scope
of JVM itself.


What is this great breakthru are we talking about here,
if you don't seem to manage even thouse things that
were resolved generations ago?

I was quite surprised that the AWT wasn't even
thread safe and if you want to use threads,
you'd better download 50+ megs of the latest
version of the bloatware, and not only you,
but ALL your customers and co-developers.

How could THAT be?

Are you joking or something?

So, for the real world applications, especially
those, we are talking on this specific thread,
you have to load literally gigabytes of JVM
alone, one for each instance of your app.

So, if you are writing apps for the biggest and
baddest of themn all, and ESPECIALLY in network
related areas, which Java claimed to be designed
for on the first place, you better tell your boss
that you need to order the latest version of
the mainframe with super cooled CPU and create
a huge service room just to keep all the cooling
equipment in.

You'd have to learn how to walk on your ears
if you want to be involved in anything big
related to java.

So, if he, for some strange reason, thinks that
they just want to push a few buttons and update
the global system of whatever they deal with,
YOU are in trouble. Because he'll probably think
that it is YOU that is the problem and not that
bloatware they have chosen to step into.

Good enough for "on-topic" material?

Your turn, oh masters of dizastas.

Cause it looks like we're going to have some fun here.

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