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developing for something that isn't there..

 
 
Lew
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      01-11-2007
Elhanan wrote:
> top-posted


Please, please stop top-posting.

- Lew
 
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Elhanan
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      01-12-2007
untill today i never even heard the term top-posting, what's that?
Lew wrote:
> Elhanan wrote:
> > top-posted

>
> Please, please stop top-posting.
>
> - Lew


 
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Elhanan
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      01-12-2007
still don't know what is top-posting, i'm simply repling to each
indvidual's post, if i try to reply to everyone at the same post that
would be a mess

xml was chosen becouse well. that's what the product gives us , we
didn't have a choice.

creating a tree model of javabeans was my insisting becouse i didnt'
want to directly access the xml and do buisness logic on it (i was
burned and actually still burning, becouse the product's last version
had a complelty differnt strucutre and style of interface, like fixed
lengh strings stuff), so i wanted to create a buisness abstraction of
the xml, based the user requriments, problem the users themsevles can't
tell how to process the xml and extract the relavent bits from it,
(technically i know to process the xml, and know it's structure, but
it's laced with heavy buisness meaning which i cannot determine
myself).


i agree are not using full xp here, first of all we are not fully
implenting pair programing (managment wouldn't allow it), managment
also insisted that analsys would be completed by the users (it's not
yet completed, but it's 100 page growing), we don't have pure TDD
(becouse pesonally i cannot bring myself to write something that won't
complie, i have morbid fear that would mess up eclipse somehow if i
continue to run stuff that partialy complie).
but we do have 2 week intervals, only the contents of what would be
accmplisehd in these 2 weeks was pre-deterined becouse we had the
analasys, and we either remove stuff during the 2 weeks we think won't
be done in time and divide it for each person in the team, we do sit
with the users for a 3-4 hours meeting in the begning the 2 weeks,
showing what was done, and what will be done ,and we do hold a standup
meeting every morning, to update each other's progress. the company's
java (in application developemtn ,not infrastructure) is very little,
and this is first time xp is implemented here.


and from my own persperctive, my last job was get this file , load it
to oracle, turn it to excel, and had over the report, move files from
here to there, import files, export files, almost pure IT, for 8 years
i've been doing this sorta thing, and i feel i'm sooo behind other
folks who actually did real development,i thought that's all i'm good
for and would never get a job at anything, i'm REALLY happy getting
this job, and getting actuall exprience in java development, i may
never be able to catch up others, but at least it's a step up.



Daniel Pitts wrote:
> [Top posting corrected]
> Elhanan wrote:
> > Daniel Pitts wrote:
> > > Elhanan wrote:
> > > > hi..
> > > >
> > > > i've been taksed to create a framework that would read a complex xml
> > > > (do NOT say data-binding) and use the data to populate a java bean
> > > > tree..
> > > >
> > > > problem that java bean tree has not been built yet.
> > > >
> > > > i do have a concept of what to pull from the xml, what elements to read
> > > > in what order, what data to get from it. so i was thinking to create a
> > > > class that does so, but for every element (or chunk of data) pulled use
> > > > and interface to send messages about them (sorta like sax) the classes
> > > > which willl implement said interface, will get this data and build the
> > > > tree..
> > > >
> > > > i was thinking that the messages will not contain an xml element itself
> > > > but rather 'convertes' as arguments.
> > > > the converted will implement an interface, that for now will simply
> > > > return another xml more formated. (just to see if my parsing works) but
> > > > will be replaced with another implmentation that will create an actuall
> > > > class.
> > > >
> > > > i don't know exactly how tdd this as i don't even know the interfaces
> > > > of tree i just know my side, i don't even know if i'm on the right
> > > > path..
> > >
> > > Sounds like the requirements aren't complete. If you have to parse an
> > > XML document and produce tree, do the simple thing and create a DOM
> > > tree. Since you're requirements aren't more specific, there isn't
> > > anything you can do.
> > >
> > > However, I would instead insist that your task is BLOCKED by the lack
> > > of interfaces. And that any thing you do before hand would be a waste
> > > of time and money.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Daniel.

> > the requirmentes are more or less complete, but we are doing things
> > 'xp' the tree itself is complext and althought the interfaces are sort
> > of there, the guy warned that they may change, (may be even
> > considrebly) so i didn't want to risk taking them out of CVS.
> >
> > parsing will be done using xom, this i allready know.
> >

>
> Please don't top post
>
> Well, the the XP approach would be that you are all pair programming on
> the same aspect, rather than all working on seperate aspects. If the
> implementors can't give you a fixed interface, then you should do your
> best with what the current interface is, and change it as needed. Its
> okay if your code breaks because of their change, just be prepared to
> update.
>
> I have to say, from the window you've provided, I'm glad I don't work
> at your shop. Sounds like a buzz-word-abuse orgy over there. "Lets
> use JavaBeans, XML and Extreme Programming!" "Okay, what are we
> making?" "Uh, User Stories?" "..."
>
> <http://www.thedailywtf.com/>
> Find a non-WTF job.


 
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Ian Wilson
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      01-12-2007
Elhanan wrote:
> still don't know what is top-posting


A: In written English, conversations flow from the top.
Q: Why?
A: It is harder to read.
Q: What is wrong with that?
A: It's when you put your reply above the original.
Q: What is top-posting?

In which order did you read the above?
In what order should I have written it?
 
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Ian Wilson
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      01-12-2007
Elhanan wrote:
> untill today i never even heard the term top-posting, what's that?
> Lew wrote:
>
>>Elhanan wrote:
>> > top-posted

>>
>>Please, please stop top-posting.
>>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post
 
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Elhanan
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      01-12-2007
so basically you just want me to delete the rest of the message except
my immidiate comment?

 
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Ian Wilson
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      01-12-2007
Elhanan wrote:
> so basically you just want me to delete the rest of the message except
> my immidiate comment?


I mentioned <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post>. To put it simply.
Newsgroups are different from email. A person elsewhere on the plane
might read your reply before my posting reaches them. It is also useful
for a newsgroup posting to make sense in it's own right without forcing
the reader to read tens or hundreds of preceding messages in order to
make sense of the reply.

Therefore it is accepted practise in many newsgroups (this inlcuded) to

- Quote the original message to which you are replying.
- Trim out any parts of the quotation which are not relevant.
- Type your reply *below* the quoted part, not at the *top*.

If you are commenting to several parts of a message then interleave your
replies with the quoted parts.

This makes it easier to read, since English conversations are written
from top to bottom. not the other way around.

Of course it is only a convention, you can do what you want.

If you want more people to read your messages and reply to you with
help, I believe you'll find it more effective to fit in with polite
conventions than to deliberately annoy people. Your choice.
 
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Lew
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      01-13-2007
Elhanan wrote:
>> so basically you just want me to delete the rest of the message except
>> my immidiate comment?


Ian Wilson wrote:
> I mentioned <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post>.


The explanation cited by Ian seems crystal clear to me. It may be the clearest
succinct explanation of top- (and other-) posting and its social impact I've
seen yet.

The practice on this group is "interleaved posting".

- Lew


 
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