So what's up with MCDST elective

So, MCDST is acceptable as an elective for MCSA, but not for MCSE.

I understand that MS feels that an MCSA might be expected to pull MCDST
duties, especially in smaller shops where an MCSA might not only be a member
of the helpdesk, they might BE the help desk. So, MS accepts MCDST as an
elective for MCSA. However, in medium to large shops, the same holds true
for MCSE. Many shops have large centralized IT departments, maybe broken
out into client vrs server groups, or external vrs internal, or data center
ops vrs internal support, or some such structure. In these shops, each
group is designing and deploying GPOs, creating sub-OUs to support those
GPOs, deploying WSUS by sites, fine tuning replication of DNS and
application partitions, etc. In fact, in larger shops, MCSE is almost a
prerequisite to even getting a foot in the door to start in the helpdesk.

Has MS ever made their opinion known on this topic? The inconsistency is so
glaring.

Thanks for letting me vent.

John

John R

Actually, I did contact MS MCP support and asked the question, and their
response was quite funny.
When asked the reasoning of why MCDST is not acceptable as an elective for
MCSE, their answer was that 'MCDST does not fulfill the elective
requirement'.

Say again?

John R

John R wrote:
> So, MCDST is acceptable as an elective for MCSA, but not for MCSE.
>
> I understand that MS feels that an MCSA might be expected to pull MCDST
> duties, especially in smaller shops where an MCSA might not only be a member
> of the helpdesk, they might BE the help desk. So, MS accepts MCDST as an
> elective for MCSA. However, in medium to large shops, the same holds true
> for MCSE. Many shops have large centralized IT departments, maybe broken
> out into client vrs server groups, or external vrs internal, or data center
> ops vrs internal support, or some such structure. In these shops, each
> group is designing and deploying GPOs, creating sub-OUs to support those
> GPOs, deploying WSUS by sites, fine tuning replication of DNS and
> application partitions, etc. In fact, in larger shops, MCSE is almost a
> prerequisite to even getting a foot in the door to start in the helpdesk.
>
> Has MS ever made their opinion known on this topic? The inconsistency is so
> glaring.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent.
>
> John
>
>

This is likely not the answer you want... I imagine Microsoft wants to
reinforce the value of MCSE by requiring more advanced electives. After
all, MCDST is the most basic cert they offer. Something like Exchange,
SQL Server, or Security make a better capstone to the curriculum.

Jonathan

Jonathan Roberts

> Say again?

Are you trying to mix oil with water?

OTHMAN

Pretty much yea. Also we have to remember that the job of an Administrator
(which is the target of the MCSA) is administration, while the job of an
engineer is that of design and implementation and deployment planning, not
the actual deployment. I'm not saying I disagree that in smaller companies
you tend to see many "Jack-of-all-trades" kinda ITPro, but that isn't
exactly the total target. For much the same reason the combined A+/Net+ as
well are an elective for the MCSA but not the MCSE. However more advance, or
should I say more specialized exams like SQL, Exchange, Security, etc would
suffice as an elective for either.

--
..rev
..
"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it"
~Aristotle
..
"Jonathan Roberts" <> wrote in message
news:...
> John R wrote:
>> So, MCDST is acceptable as an elective for MCSA, but not for MCSE.
>>
>> I understand that MS feels that an MCSA might be expected to pull MCDST
>> duties, especially in smaller shops where an MCSA might not only be a
>> member of the helpdesk, they might BE the help desk. So, MS accepts
>> MCDST as an elective for MCSA. However, in medium to large shops, the
>> same holds true for MCSE. Many shops have large centralized IT
>> departments, maybe broken out into client vrs server groups, or external
>> vrs internal, or data center ops vrs internal support, or some such
>> structure. In these shops, each group is designing and deploying GPOs,
>> creating sub-OUs to support those GPOs, deploying WSUS by sites, fine
>> tuning replication of DNS and application partitions, etc. In fact, in
>> larger shops, MCSE is almost a prerequisite to even getting a foot in the
>> door to start in the helpdesk.
>>
>> Has MS ever made their opinion known on this topic? The inconsistency is
>> so glaring.
>>
>> Thanks for letting me vent.
>>
>> John
>
> This is likely not the answer you want... I imagine Microsoft wants to
> reinforce the value of MCSE by requiring more advanced electives. After
> all, MCDST is the most basic cert they offer. Something like Exchange,
> SQL Server, or Security make a better capstone to the curriculum.
>
> Jonathan

.rev [MCT]

"Jonathan Roberts" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> This is likely not the answer you want... I imagine Microsoft wants to
> reinforce the value of MCSE by requiring more advanced electives. After
> all, MCDST is the most basic cert they offer. Something like Exchange,
> SQL Server, or Security make a better capstone to the curriculum.
>
> Jonathan

I agree with all that. I'm just saying that they even accept the
configuring Vista test, and that is only one test. MCDST is two tests that
go a little further into XP than configuration. And quite honestly, I think
it is going to be a long time before the masses accept Vista.

I know I'm not going to change policy, I don't expect to. I am just
pointing out real life, and trying to understand where the priorities are.

Of course, in real life one would have quite a bit more time to design a
network infrastructure or security than the tests allow, lol.

Back to the books for me. Thanks for the responses.

John R

Right, you can use 70-620 as the Client Elective for the MCSA/MCSE like you
can 70-210 which is much older technology. 620 is more like 270 than either
of the MCDST exams, the reason they aren't used as client electives is
because they test a completely different skill-set. Tech support and
administration are two different worlds, and the fact you may do both has no
baring on that fact. As for why its an elective for the MCSA and not the
MCSE is because an administrator has more chance to be involved with tech
support than the MCSE by definition, which I said previously.

--
..rev
..
"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it"
~Aristotle
..
"John R" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> "Jonathan Roberts" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>>
>> This is likely not the answer you want... I imagine Microsoft wants to
>> reinforce the value of MCSE by requiring more advanced electives. After
>> all, MCDST is the most basic cert they offer. Something like Exchange,
>> SQL Server, or Security make a better capstone to the curriculum.
>>
>> Jonathan
>
> I agree with all that. I'm just saying that they even accept the
> configuring Vista test, and that is only one test. MCDST is two tests
> that go a little further into XP than configuration. And quite honestly,
> I think it is going to be a long time before the masses accept Vista.
>
> I know I'm not going to change policy, I don't expect to. I am just
> pointing out real life, and trying to understand where the priorities are.
>
> Of course, in real life one would have quite a bit more time to design a
> network infrastructure or security than the tests allow, lol.
>
> Back to the books for me. Thanks for the responses.
>

.rev [MCT]

".rev [MCT]" <> prattled ceaselessly in
news:#:

> which I said previously.
>

And very well, I might add. Bravo.

--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCSA, MCSE
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
faq.mcngp.com
"Definitely not wearing any underwear."

catwalker63

".rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Right, you can use 70-620 as the Client Elective for the MCSA/MCSE like
> you can 70-210 which is much older technology. 620 is more like 270 than
> either of the MCDST exams, the reason they aren't used as client electives
> is because they test a completely different skill-set. Tech support and
> administration are two different worlds, and the fact you may do both has
> no baring on that fact. As for why its an elective for the MCSA and not
> the MCSE is because an administrator has more chance to be involved with
> tech support than the MCSE by definition, which I said previously.
>
> --
> .rev


Ummm, you can use 70-620 as the elective like 70-227, 70-228, 70-229.
You cannot use 70-620 instead of 70-210 or 70-270.

Therein makes my point, and therein lies my confusion.

Just to be accurate.

John R

John R wrote:
> ".rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> Right, you can use 70-620 as the Client Elective for the MCSA/MCSE like
>> you can 70-210 which is much older technology. 620 is more like 270 than
>> either of the MCDST exams, the reason they aren't used as client electives
>> is because they test a completely different skill-set. Tech support and
>> administration are two different worlds, and the fact you may do both has
>> no baring on that fact. As for why its an elective for the MCSA and not
>> the MCSE is because an administrator has more chance to be involved with
>> tech support than the MCSE by definition, which I said previously.
>>
>> --
>> .rev
>
>
> Ummm, you can use 70-620 as the elective like 70-227, 70-228, 70-229.
> You cannot use 70-620 instead of 70-210 or 70-270.
>
> Therein makes my point, and therein lies my confusion.
>
> Just to be accurate.
>
>
True, I have read conflicting information on the MS web site about just
this subject. One source says the 70-620 CAN be used instead of 70-270,
and one source does not show the 70-620 as an allowable client OS exam
for MCSE. This is why my client OS exam is last on my list to get for
the MCSA. Once it is 100% clear I will decide which to take.

Red Swingline Stapler