Citrix

Last year I received my MCSE but I have to admit I was a "book" MCSE with
limited praticial expereince.

So I started working part time for a local non profits Info Sys Dept. We
have a single Win2003 domain. After working for a few months I could not help
noticing that we use probably less than 1% of the capabilities of a Windows
domain. Essentially we use the domain to authenticate logons and that is
about it.

Recently the boss mentioned getting Citrix and talked like this was the
answer to everything. I could not help asking "Why are we getting a new
management system when we use so little of the one we have that is paid
for?"

But this begs the question: What are the advantages and disadvantages of
using Citirx within a Windows domain.

Input would be appreciated.

=?Utf-8?B?TXlydCBpbiBNVA==?=

Myrt in MT wrote:
> Last year I received my MCSE but I have to admit I was a "book" MCSE with
> limited praticial expereince.
>
> So I started working part time for a local non profits Info Sys Dept. We
> have a single Win2003 domain. After working for a few months I could not help
> noticing that we use probably less than 1% of the capabilities of a Windows
> domain. Essentially we use the domain to authenticate logons and that is
> about it.
>
> Recently the boss mentioned getting Citrix and talked like this was the
> answer to everything. I could not help asking "Why are we getting a new
> management system when we use so little of the one we have that is paid
> for?"
>
> But this begs the question: What are the advantages and disadvantages of
> using Citirx within a Windows domain.
>
> Input would be appreciated.

Citrix has some nice features as far as control, helpdesk, management,
etc. But you can do about 90% of it with the built-in Windows stuff.
Unless you're running "small business server", your Windows server has
"Terminal Services" built right in. Does pretty much the same thing as
Citrix. Even if you are running SBS, another copy of Server 2003
Standard is only about $600 street price. You really shoould use another
server anyway. The last thing you need is users logging on to your DC
and treating it like their home computer! You need to plan this
carefully, because thin-client and standard workstations can be somewhat
mutually exclusive. Windows 2003 requires a CAL (client access license)
for each connection. For that reason, it may be beneficial to remove the
workstations from the domain. Of course if you do that, local logon
credentials no longer permeate the domain. But even if yo have to
double-up on licenses, compare it to the initial cost and licenses for
Citrix and unless you have a whole lot of users, I think you'll find
you're still ahead.

Either way, having multiple users running major applications on a single
application server requires a very high-end server. Generally,
multi-processor, gigs of RAM, lots of storage and a backup solution that
can handle all that storage.

If the boss was thinking of going with Linux desktops or something, that
adds more licensing requirements. You will require an additional
terminal services license for every non-windows connection - even those
must be from a "professional" desktop: W2K Pro, XP Pro - not Home or 98.
And if the server goes down, the entire office is down.

So consider carefully.....

....kurt

Kurt

Seconded! I don't understand why a 'true' network admin would need to run a
network through Citrix. From what I've seen of Citrix (which is not really a
whole lot) I could do everything that Citrix could do...without all the
overhead.

Here's my take on Citrix: It's just a program that houses all the commands
that are already built into Windows Server. They've just placed the more
important functions out where people know they exist.

If you're a true NA, then you know where everything is and Citrix just
becomes more of a burden than anything.

I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's how I see it anyways.



--
CertGuard
You Think you know IT?!
www.CertGuard.com/Forums/





"Kurt" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Myrt in MT wrote:
>> Last year I received my MCSE but I have to admit I was a "book" MCSE with
>> limited praticial expereince.
>>
>> So I started working part time for a local non profits Info Sys Dept. We
>> have a single Win2003 domain. After working for a few months I could not
>> help noticing that we use probably less than 1% of the capabilities of a
>> Windows domain. Essentially we use the domain to authenticate logons and
>> that is about it.
>>
>> Recently the boss mentioned getting Citrix and talked like this was the
>> answer to everything. I could not help asking "Why are we getting a new
>> management system when we use so little of the one we have that is paid
>> for?" But this begs the question: What are the advantages and
>> disadvantages of using Citirx within a Windows domain.
>>
>> Input would be appreciated.
>
> Citrix has some nice features as far as control, helpdesk, management,
> etc. But you can do about 90% of it with the built-in Windows stuff.
> Unless you're running "small business server", your Windows server has
> "Terminal Services" built right in. Does pretty much the same thing as
> Citrix. Even if you are running SBS, another copy of Server 2003 Standard
> is only about $600 street price. You really shoould use another server
> anyway. The last thing you need is users logging on to your DC and
> treating it like their home computer! You need to plan this carefully,
> because thin-client and standard workstations can be somewhat mutually
> exclusive. Windows 2003 requires a CAL (client access license) for each
> connection. For that reason, it may be beneficial to remove the
> workstations from the domain. Of course if you do that, local logon
> credentials no longer permeate the domain. But even if yo have to
> double-up on licenses, compare it to the initial cost and licenses for
> Citrix and unless you have a whole lot of users, I think you'll find
> you're still ahead.
>
> Either way, having multiple users running major applications on a single
> application server requires a very high-end server. Generally,
> multi-processor, gigs of RAM, lots of storage and a backup solution that
> can handle all that storage.
>
> If the boss was thinking of going with Linux desktops or something, that
> adds more licensing requirements. You will require an additional terminal
> services license for every non-windows connection - even those must be
> from a "professional" desktop: W2K Pro, XP Pro - not Home or 98. And if
> the server goes down, the entire office is down.
>
> So consider carefully.....
>
> ...kurt

CertGuard

What are the things that Citrix does that makes it attractive to use?

"CertGuard" wrote:

> Seconded! I don't understand why a 'true' network admin would need to run a
> network through Citrix. From what I've seen of Citrix (which is not really a
> whole lot) I could do everything that Citrix could do...without all the
> overhead.
>
> Here's my take on Citrix: It's just a program that houses all the commands
> that are already built into Windows Server. They've just placed the more
> important functions out where people know they exist.
>
> If you're a true NA, then you know where everything is and Citrix just
> becomes more of a burden than anything.
>
> I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's how I see it anyways.
>
>
>
> --
> CertGuard
> You Think you know IT?!
> www.CertGuard.com/Forums/
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kurt" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > Myrt in MT wrote:
> >> Last year I received my MCSE but I have to admit I was a "book" MCSE with
> >> limited praticial expereince.
> >>
> >> So I started working part time for a local non profits Info Sys Dept. We
> >> have a single Win2003 domain. After working for a few months I could not
> >> help noticing that we use probably less than 1% of the capabilities of a
> >> Windows domain. Essentially we use the domain to authenticate logons and
> >> that is about it.
> >>
> >> Recently the boss mentioned getting Citrix and talked like this was the
> >> answer to everything. I could not help asking "Why are we getting a new
> >> management system when we use so little of the one we have that is paid
> >> for?" But this begs the question: What are the advantages and
> >> disadvantages of using Citirx within a Windows domain.
> >>
> >> Input would be appreciated.
> >
> > Citrix has some nice features as far as control, helpdesk, management,
> > etc. But you can do about 90% of it with the built-in Windows stuff.
> > Unless you're running "small business server", your Windows server has
> > "Terminal Services" built right in. Does pretty much the same thing as
> > Citrix. Even if you are running SBS, another copy of Server 2003 Standard
> > is only about $600 street price. You really shoould use another server
> > anyway. The last thing you need is users logging on to your DC and
> > treating it like their home computer! You need to plan this carefully,
> > because thin-client and standard workstations can be somewhat mutually
> > exclusive. Windows 2003 requires a CAL (client access license) for each
> > connection. For that reason, it may be beneficial to remove the
> > workstations from the domain. Of course if you do that, local logon
> > credentials no longer permeate the domain. But even if yo have to
> > double-up on licenses, compare it to the initial cost and licenses for
> > Citrix and unless you have a whole lot of users, I think you'll find
> > you're still ahead.
> >
> > Either way, having multiple users running major applications on a single
> > application server requires a very high-end server. Generally,
> > multi-processor, gigs of RAM, lots of storage and a backup solution that
> > can handle all that storage.
> >
> > If the boss was thinking of going with Linux desktops or something, that
> > adds more licensing requirements. You will require an additional terminal
> > services license for every non-windows connection - even those must be
> > from a "professional" desktop: W2K Pro, XP Pro - not Home or 98. And if
> > the server goes down, the entire office is down.
> >
> > So consider carefully.....
> >
> > ...kurt
>
>

=?Utf-8?B?TXlydCBpbiBNVA==?=

Myrt in MT wrote:
> What are the things that Citrix does that makes it attractive to use?
>

A better question might: what does your boss think the organization will
gain from Citrix? If he is just look, for example, to get remote
connectivity, I would argue that Terminal Services is just as good of a
solution.

For a non-profit org, I would think Citrix is likely a waste of resources.

Jonathan

Jonathan Roberts

"Jonathan Roberts" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Myrt in MT wrote:
>> What are the things that Citrix does that makes it attractive to use?
>>
>
> A better question might: what does your boss think the organization will
> gain from Citrix? If he is just look, for example, to get remote
> connectivity, I would argue that Terminal Services is just as good of a
> solution.
>
> For a non-profit org, I would think Citrix is likely a waste of resources.
>
> Jonathan
>
Yes good point. However, in organizations with a big demand on a terminal
server environment that includes a demand to print like crazy coupled with a
secure web interface Citrix would be a useful tool. Citrix gives
administrators a bit more leverage in controlling who gets to use
applications, cutting down on the potential of being out of compliance for
licensing. It provides a secure web interface that can present applications
to the user thus avoiding the issue of a desktop that might be abused.
Presentation server can provide a very secure environment which is what many
orgs want when they have tons of mobile users. Plus all you need is a web
browser, even using goofy Knoppix on a VERY low end laptop with a network
connection will get you to where you need to go. Drawbacks include expense
and the need for in-house knowledge. But if your users MUST print all their
home printers Citrix can make that task much easier, yes I am taking into
account the vast improvements in W2K3 print services and the utilities
available in W2k3 TS.
All that aside, if at all possible, wait. Longhorn may prove to have solved
some of these issues.

--
LRM
MCNGP 7^2
www.mcngp.com home of the bogosity singularity.

LRM

I love Citrix. We have a Citrix farm and use published applications. Most
of our locations are on thin client. They use Wyse terminals that are
configured using an ica connection to connect back to the Citrix farm and
pull their Windows desktop and all of their applications. The programs they
see listed depends on what security groups they are in. It's pretty cool.
Those locations are easier to support than the locations who are still using
fat desktops. Plus it's pretty cool that they can go to any computer with an
internet connection and go to our Nfuse website and log in and see exactly
the same desktop that they'd see from the office. Honestly though, I'm not
exactly sure where Windows Terminal Services ends and Citrix begins. In this
type of environment, Citrix is all I've used.

"Myrt in MT" wrote:

> Last year I received my MCSE but I have to admit I was a "book" MCSE with
> limited praticial expereince.
>
> So I started working part time for a local non profits Info Sys Dept. We
> have a single Win2003 domain. After working for a few months I could not help
> noticing that we use probably less than 1% of the capabilities of a Windows
> domain. Essentially we use the domain to authenticate logons and that is
> about it.
>
> Recently the boss mentioned getting Citrix and talked like this was the
> answer to everything. I could not help asking "Why are we getting a new
> management system when we use so little of the one we have that is paid
> for?"
>
> But this begs the question: What are the advantages and disadvantages of
> using Citirx within a Windows domain.
>
> Input would be appreciated.

=?Utf-8?B?SnVsaWE=?=

Julia wrote:
Perhaps
> you should find out what it is your boss wants to accomplish, set it up in a
> lab, and present it to him as an alternative to Citrix.
>


GREAT idea, a lab could showcase what can be done under 'plain' Windows
Server.

Jonathan Roberts

Citrix has a lot of bells and whistles that Terminal Services does not have,
Terminal Services does offer you a good solution for doing Administrative
work to servers but if you are going to have 20 + users accessing certain
applications (and not the desktop) than you will want Citrix. Citrix offers
a nice way to load balance based off of different types of loads that you can
specify as well as it allows to publish single applications and not the
desktop (which end users love to abuse).

You really have to understand how your company wants to impliment remote
access and move forward from there. Citrix is a great application that runs
on top of TS and is easier to manage than TS. Ihave worked with Citrix for
10 years and I am an CCEA as well as a MCSE for 12 years.

=?Utf-8?B?TGVlIENvbGxpc29u?=

>10 years and I am an CCEA as well as a MCSE for 12 years.

ma must be real proud of yer son..

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

Kline Sphere