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Lag every 60 seconds on wireless network

 
 
dw5f7qz4@googlemail.com
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      11-20-2006
When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:

Example:
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=425ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
[...57 seconds...]
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=777ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)

 
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Meat Plow
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2006
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:12:34 -0800, dw5f7qz4 Has Frothed:

> When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
> a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
> other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:
>
> Example:
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=425ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> [...57 seconds...]
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=777ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>
> Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
> that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
> manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)


You're not using them both at the same time (unknowingly of course)?
Not sure if disabling QoS would help but what the hell, give it a try.

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794
 
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dw5f7qz4@googlemail.com
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      11-20-2006
Meat Plow wrote:
> You're not using them both at the same time (unknowingly of course)?


Both XP's wireless and manufacturers software at the same time? No, for
my new Netgear USB adapater, I installed only the drivers and avoided
the software.

> Not sure if disabling QoS would help but what the hell, give it a try.


I tried disabling QoS without any difference.

 
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Jeff Liebermann
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      11-21-2006
On 20 Nov 2006 14:12:34 -0800, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
>a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
>other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:

(...)
>Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
>that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
>manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)


There was a recent thread in alt.internet.wireless, where the OP had a
similar problem with his Dell D600 laptop and Truemobile 1400 wireless
card getting busy every 60 seconds. It could be seen as a glitch on
the task manager. The culprit seems to be in the Dell Truemobile 1400
driver as it doesn't happen with the ethernet port or when the
wireless card is disabled.

Start at:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.i...d061c9b423202f
It's rather long unfortunately, as we slug our way through my various
bad guesses. You might be able to learn something useful (such as
disclosing the hardware that you're using).



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
 
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Jack \(MVP-Networking\).
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-21-2006
Hi

Could be that the Brand drivers are not fully compatible with Windows Zero
Configuration.

Log to the support site of the Brand, and look for the driver's last update.

Some time looking for the Card chipset manufacturer and finding OEM drivers
for it to replace the Brand Drivers solve compatibility problems as well.
As a theoretical example, a card is sold under Brand name X but the chipset
is made by RALINK, downloading and installing the original drivers from
RALINK might yield better results.

Jack (MVP-Networking).



<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
> a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
> other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:
>
> Example:
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=425ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> [...57 seconds...]
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=777ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>
> Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
> that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
> manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)
>



 
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John Navas
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-21-2006
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 01:01:22 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>On 20 Nov 2006 14:12:34 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>>When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
>>a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
>>other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:

>(...)
>>Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
>>that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
>>manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)

>
>There was a recent thread in alt.internet.wireless, where the OP had a
>similar problem with his Dell D600 laptop and Truemobile 1400 wireless
>card getting busy every 60 seconds. It could be seen as a glitch on
>the task manager. The culprit seems to be in the Dell Truemobile 1400
>driver as it doesn't happen with the ethernet port or when the
>wireless card is disabled.
>[SNIP]


That wouldn't explain why the spike is seen only with XP and not with
the OEM software.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
 
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kbloch2001
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-21-2006
Lots of interesting asnwers but wrong on most parts in my opinion. The
problem has to do with the Windows Zero Configuration program and the
setting to check for other networks periodically. Periodically to
microsoft is to check once every 60 seconds. When it does its check it
goes into a scan modem and searches for other access points that may
offer a better signal. It does not matter if you are sitting on top of
the other access point and have a maximum signal strenght indicated it
will still look.

As far as the comments on the vendor software being bloated I disagree.
If Microsoft would quit trying to control everything on a PC and let
the vendors for hardware use there drivers by default it would be much
easier to solve problems or avoid them alltogether.


(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
> a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
> other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:
>
> Example:
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=425ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> [...57 seconds...]
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=777ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>
> Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
> that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
> manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)


 
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John Navas
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-22-2006
On 21 Nov 2006 15:37:40 -0800, "kbloch2001" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote in <(E-Mail Removed) .com>:

>Lots of interesting asnwers but wrong on most parts in my opinion. The
>problem has to do with the Windows Zero Configuration program and the
>setting to check for other networks periodically. Periodically to
>microsoft is to check once every 60 seconds. When it does its check it
>goes into a scan modem and searches for other access points that may
>offer a better signal. It does not matter if you are sitting on top of
>the other access point and have a maximum signal strenght indicated it
>will still look.


Doesn't compute -- I'm using WZC and get no such spikes.

>As far as the comments on the vendor software being bloated I disagree.
>If Microsoft would quit trying to control everything on a PC and let
>the vendors for hardware use there drivers by default it would be much
>easier to solve problems or avoid them alltogether.


Respectfully disagree -- some of these 3rd-party driver packages are
wildly bloated, Intel being a notable case in point at a mere 52 MB!

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
>> a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
>> other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:
>>
>> Example:
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=425ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>> [...57 seconds...]
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=777ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>>
>> Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
>> that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
>> manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)


--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
 
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Peter Boosten
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-22-2006
In alt.internet.wireless (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> When using XP's built-in wireless software, every 60 seconds, there is
> a lag spike on all devices, I can see by each machine pinging each
> other and/or the router and/or external Internet IP:
>
> Example:
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=425ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> [...57 seconds...]
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=777ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
> Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
>
> Yet when I use the manufacturers own Wireless configuration software
> that came with the drivers, the lag doesn't occur, WHY? (I hate using
> manufacturers software - ugly and bloated)
>


Don't know if this applies to you: I saw this once (in the beginning) when
enabling WPA. I thought it was the result of WPA creating a new WEP key every
minute. I solved this by upgrading the firmware of my WAP.

Peter

--
http://www.boosten.org

Mail: peter at boosten dot org
 
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Jeff Liebermann
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-22-2006
"kbloch2001" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Lots of interesting asnwers but wrong on most parts in my opinion. The
>problem has to do with the Windows Zero Configuration program and the
>setting to check for other networks periodically. Periodically to
>microsoft is to check once every 60 seconds. When it does its check it
>goes into a scan modem and searches for other access points that may
>offer a better signal. It does not matter if you are sitting on top of
>the other access point and have a maximum signal strenght indicated it
>will still look.


That would make sense if Microsoft bothered to search for other
networks AFTER it has successfully connected. The problem is that it
doesn't. Wireless Zero Config will tenaciously stick to a connection
even if there is a much stronger signal available using the same SSID.
You can demonstrate this for yourself by attempting to roam between
access points (using the same SSID). WZC will not switch to the
stronger access point until it has literally lost the connection to
the original access point. That's where the approximately 60 seconds
happens as a keep alive. It tries to reconnect by assuming that there
was no traffic to move. When it doesn't find the original access
point, it will then switch to scan mode. Note that scan mode takes
much longer than the 1 second or so shown on the ping responses. You
can also unplug the first access point and time how long it takes for
the client to switch to another access point with the same SSID. Last
time I tried it, the connect time was about 10 to 40 seconds depending
on where in the 60 second timing cycle the first access point was
unplugged.

There are some other client managers that do a better job of switching
access points. Intel Proset 10.x is one example. It even has
settings at to how tenaciously it will remain connected to the initial
access point.

>As far as the comments on the vendor software being bloated I disagree.
>If Microsoft would quit trying to control everything on a PC and let
>the vendors for hardware use there drivers by default it would be much
>easier to solve problems or avoid them alltogether.


I don't care if the driver is 1 GBloat big. All I care is that it
works. A clue as to how well the MS WZC client manager is written is
the stupid requirement to enter the WPA key twice. That may make
sense for the access point, where a mistyped WPA key or password will
prevent future access. However, it makes no sense on the client,
where a typo error is simply corrected and retried.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
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