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Why do people prefer Ajax apps over Java applets?

 
 
jason.m.ho@gmail.com
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      09-21-2006
>From the common user perspective (like my grandma), why would they care
if its a java applet or an ajax application? Say I want to make a chat
system on my website...If i'm doing really involved Comet push-style
data communication, and rendering everything using DHTML, why would
users prefer that over a java applet?

Moreover, say I use a java applet to transfer data through a socket
connection, then use DHTML to display the data, so that basically the
front end is the same, but the backend is differs, why would a user
prefer the comet-style programming over applet?

I'm asking because I wrote an Ajax chat system through polling, and I
want to switch to a Comet push-style system because polling just isn't
responsive enough. I want to know if I can avoid Comet (since it is
alot of overhead for the server) and just use an applet in the
background to transfer data through socket connections, then use DHTML
to render the chat boxes.

- Jason

 
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Jean-Francois Briere
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      09-21-2006
Short answer: applets are toooooo sloooooooooooooooow to startup.
I allways know the moment I hit a site on the WEB that has an applet on
it because everything stops. The browser hangs for many seconds and the
whole machine seems to painfully go into some intensive process It's
the java plugin that starts!
There are many other issues with applets. This is just one of them.

 
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PofN
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      09-21-2006

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> >From the common user perspective (like my grandma),


Because your grandma might not live long enough to witness the end of
the JVM startup.

 
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Mark Rafn
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      09-21-2006
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>From the common user perspective (like my grandma), why would they care

>if its a java applet or an ajax application?


They don't. They care that it works instantly on their computer, in the same
window, seamlessly integrated with their surving, without having to install
plugins or deal with long startup delays.

>Say I want to make a chat system on my website...If i'm doing really involved
>Comet push-style data communication, and rendering everything using DHTML,
>why would users prefer that over a java applet?


<repeat above sentence>

>Moreover, say I use a java applet to transfer data through a socket
>connection, then use DHTML to display the data, so that basically the
>front end is the same, but the backend is differs, why would a user
>prefer the comet-style programming over applet?


Ask the user. If it's me, I prefer an applet. Or sometimes a full app.
But I already have the plugin, and have a high-speed connection and a
reasonably fast machine. If it's my grandmother, she wil have no idea what
you're talking about, but will be completely unable to install anything, and
if it takes more than about 10 seconds to show the first time, she'll decide
it's broken and do something else.

>I'm asking because I wrote an Ajax chat system through polling, and I
>want to switch to a Comet push-style system because polling just isn't
>responsive enough. I want to know if I can avoid Comet (since it is
>alot of overhead for the server) and just use an applet in the
>background to transfer data through socket connections, then use DHTML
>to render the chat boxes.


You're asking the wrong people. We're mostly programmers here. You need to
ask your users. Where this is impossible, you have to imagine yourself as a
user. A good way to do this is to buy a $100 5-year old machine on ebay,
install windows on it, and see if your prototype works.
--
Mark Rafn (E-Mail Removed) <http://www.dagon.net/>
 
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=
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      09-22-2006
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> From the common user perspective (like my grandma), why would they care
> if its a java applet or an ajax application? Say I want to make a chat
> system on my website...If i'm doing really involved Comet push-style
> data communication, and rendering everything using DHTML, why would
> users prefer that over a java applet?
>
> Moreover, say I use a java applet to transfer data through a socket
> connection, then use DHTML to display the data, so that basically the
> front end is the same, but the backend is differs, why would a user
> prefer the comet-style programming over applet?


Among other things many Win XP PC's does not have Java installed.

> I'm asking because I wrote an Ajax chat system through polling, and I
> want to switch to a Comet push-style system because polling just isn't
> responsive enough. I want to know if I can avoid Comet (since it is
> alot of overhead for the server) and just use an applet in the
> background to transfer data through socket connections, then use DHTML
> to render the chat boxes.


For chats, then I still think applet or flash with sockets
is better than Ajax.

Ajax does makes i blinkfree. It does not solve the performace
issue with polling.

Arne
 
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Domagoj Klepac
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      09-24-2006
On 21 Sep 2006 13:42:39 -0700, "Jean-Francois Briere"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Short answer: applets are toooooo sloooooooooooooooow to startup.
>I allways know the moment I hit a site on the WEB that has an applet on
>it because everything stops. The browser hangs for many seconds and the
>whole machine seems to painfully go into some intensive process It's
>the java plugin that starts!


That's IE's doing. I've observed (3-4 MB) applet which takes 1 min to
start in IE start in 5 sec in Opera (or Firefox). I guess IE is so
darn slow while starting applets purely for political reasons -
probably the artefact from applets/ActiveX war.

Pity though. Applets are such a nice technology, too bad we had to
wait until recently to be saved from http request-response model by
the AJAX mish-mash. Applets are much cleaner, but alas, they're "out"
and Sun is not pushing them any more.

Domchi
 
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=
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      09-24-2006
Domagoj Klepac wrote:
> Pity though. Applets are such a nice technology, too bad we had to
> wait until recently to be saved from http request-response model by
> the AJAX mish-mash. Applets are much cleaner, but alas, they're "out"
> and Sun is not pushing them any more.


AJAX does not save us from request response.

It just makes it less visible.

And therefore likely that we will see even worse apps.

Arne
 
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