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CSS vs. tables // fixed vs. variable

 
 
Chris
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      09-17-2006
Hello,

I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of tables to
layout your pages. But why is that actually? And why is fixed width layout
so bad?

Thanks,

Chris
 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      09-17-2006
Chris wrote:

> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of
> tables to layout your pages. But why is that actually?


Were there reasons given where you read that? What did they say?

Tables are for .. tabular data. A quick Google turns up a couple
thousand times this has been discussed. Here's one:

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.html/browse_thread/thread/a9fa57c1f35eeac1/45bce92624068442?lnk=st&q=tables+vs+css+for+layout &rnum=7#45bce92624068442>

Main reason: separate content from presentation.

> And why is fixed width layout so bad?


What is the width of my browser window?

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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      09-17-2006
Chris wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of tables to
> layout your pages. But why is that actually? And why is fixed width layout
> so bad?


You're a troll, right? This has been debated and explained to death in
this forum. Why not do a little reading? Anyway, if your make a fixed
layout what screen size do you design for? And what do you think happens
when a visitor deviates from your "design" or changes his font size, eh?



--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Chris
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      09-17-2006
Jonathan N. Little wrote:

> Chris wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of tables
>> to layout your pages. But why is that actually? And why is fixed width
>> layout so bad?

>
> You're a troll, right? This has been debated and explained to death in
> this forum. Why not do a little reading? Anyway, if your make a fixed
> layout what screen size do you design for? And what do you think happens
> when a visitor deviates from your "design" or changes his font size, eh?
>
>
>

Take it easy on the cofee. Herbal tea does wonders!
 
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Chris
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      09-17-2006
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

> Chris wrote:
>
>> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of
>> tables to layout your pages. But why is that actually?

>
> Were there reasons given where you read that? What did they say?
>

No reasons given, that's why I wonder. Also, styling a fixed width and/or
table layout is a lot easier. I try to use only DIV's according to the
recommendations, but I would just like to know why I am doing all the extra
effort.

> Tables are for .. tabular data. A quick Google turns up a couple
> thousand times this has been discussed. Here's one:
>
>

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.html/browse_thread/thread/a9fa57c1f35eeac1/45bce92624068442?lnk=st&q=tables+vs+css+for+layout &rnum=7#45bce92624068442>
>
> Main reason: separate content from presentation.
>

The fact that it has a couple of thousand times been discussed must show
that it's not clear to many people. Also I see many websites still make use
of table layouts and they don't look bad at all.

The main reason that you state is not clear to me. If I use a table for
layout, then to me that's part of the presentation. I can even style the
table with CSS in my stylesheet.

>> And why is fixed width layout so bad?

>
> What is the width of my browser window?
>

the max size of your browser window is at least 1024px
 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      09-17-2006
Chris wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> Chris wrote:
>>
>>> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of
>>> tables to layout your pages. But why is that actually?

>>
>> Were there reasons given where you read that? What did they say?
>>

> No reasons given, that's why I wonder. Also, styling a fixed width
> and/or table layout is a lot easier. I try to use only DIV's
> according to the recommendations, but I would just like to know why I
> am doing all the extra effort.


Practically all of the Usenet discussions I've read on this topic always
give reasons.

>> Tables are for .. tabular data. A quick Google turns up a couple
>> thousand times this has been discussed. Here's one:
>>

> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.html/browse_thread/thread/a9fa57c1f35eeac1/45bce92624068442?lnk=st&q=tables+vs+css+for+layout &rnum=7#45bce92624068442>
>>
>> Main reason: separate content from presentation.
>>

> The fact that it has a couple of thousand times been discussed must show
> that it's not clear to many people.


Those who find this group and come and ask are new to the concept,
that's all. Also, most do not search for past articles before asking all
over again.

Those of us who have eschewed tables-for-layout long ago already know
how much easier it is.

> Also I see many websites still make use
> of table layouts and they don't look bad at all.


Sure, some/many of them *look* ok ...

> The main reason that you state is not clear to me. If I use a table for
> layout, then to me that's part of the presentation. I can even style the
> table with CSS in my stylesheet.


One of the problems with tables is they are not linear. How about how
they "display" in a speaking browser? Does it read it column by column?
Or row by row?

Using CSS for layout, there is a lot less code, it is much easier to
maintain (and write, once you understand it), and search engines and
speaking browsers have an easier time of it.

>>> And why is fixed width layout so bad?

>>
>> What is the width of my browser window?
>>

> the max size of your browser window is at least 1024px


My browsers are never maximized. If you had a fixed layout of, say,
800px, it *might* fit, but next time my browser may be around 700px
because I have another window opened next to it.

http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts
http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Screen_size
http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

The only tables at this site of mine are for .. tabular data. <g>
http://countryrode.com/

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-18-2006
Chris wrote:
> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>
>> Chris wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of tables
>>> to layout your pages. But why is that actually? And why is fixed width
>>> layout so bad?

>> You're a troll, right? This has been debated and explained to death in
>> this forum. Why not do a little reading? Anyway, if your make a fixed
>> layout what screen size do you design for? And what do you think happens
>> when a visitor deviates from your "design" or changes his font size, eh?
>>
>>
>>

> Take it easy on the cofee. Herbal tea does wonders!


I think if your read what I have written your will discover my points
are valid and not reactionary. Aligned with was BTS has offered you.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Chaddy2222
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-18-2006

Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> >
> >> Chris wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of tables
> >>> to layout your pages. But why is that actually? And why is fixed width
> >>> layout so bad?
> >> You're a troll, right? This has been debated and explained to death in
> >> this forum. Why not do a little reading? Anyway, if your make a fixed
> >> layout what screen size do you design for? And what do you think happens
> >> when a visitor deviates from your "design" or changes his font size, eh?
> >>
> >>
> >>

> > Take it easy on the cofee. Herbal tea does wonders!

>
> I think if your read what I have written your will discover my points
> are valid and not reactionary. Aligned with was BTS has offered you.

Yes, that seams to be the case. *If one more person posts a question
regarding the benifits of useing frames I will properly haft to resort
to placeing several sharp objects through my screen. Hint, in this day
in age, there aren't many at all. (if any).
I actually have found that since I swiched to useing CSS for layout,
that it is much easier to get the type of layout that I want.
I get less problems with navigation moveing around in strange ways etc
etc.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc

 
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Neredbojias
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-18-2006
To further the education of mankind, Chris <(E-Mail Removed)>
vouchsafed:

> Hello,
>
> I've already read several times that CSS should be used instead of
> tables to layout your pages. But why is that actually?


The trouble with tables is that they have too many letters. A nice tri-
alpha div is so much more pristine.

> And why is
> fixed width layout so bad?


It can never reproduce.

--
Neredbojias
Infinity has its limits.
 
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Toby Inkster
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-18-2006
Chris wrote:

> the max size of your browser window is at least 1024px


The max width of my browser window is 208px. (Unless you have some
kind of trick to expand the screen resolution of my Nokia 6230i.)

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

 
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