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why do people hate Frontpage?...

 
 
Smed
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      09-11-2006
whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
website"...

i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...

why do people hate Frontpage?..

what editors would you recommend?..

-s


 
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Runnin' on Empty
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      09-11-2006

"Smed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:rZiNg.1484$(E-Mail Removed)-kc.rr.com...
> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
> little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
> website"...
>
> i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
> Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...
>
> why do people hate Frontpage?..
>
> what editors would you recommend?..
>
> -s



Homesite+

It comes packaged with Dreamweaver, but it's a separate install.

FrontPage is lame on many levels, not the least of which is how it creates
dynamic content... and forget the HTML it creates...


 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      09-11-2006
Smed wrote:

> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give
> that little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about
> making a website"...


I suppose it is ok for a personal/hobby site.

> i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
> Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...


The best 'editor' is a text editor.

If you read the generated output source code, you might understand why
FrontPage is not a good choice. It helps to understand raw HTML and CSS.
Further, given its head, it will generate stuff that only IE users could
see.

> why do people hate Frontpage?..


"Name the four worst HTML 'editors':"

4. Microsoft FrontPage
3. Microsoft Word
2. Microsoft Excel
1. Microsoft Publisher

> what editors would you recommend?..


http://crimsoneditor.com/ is quite good. It is an editor, not a WYSINWYG
tool.

If you really need a Gui, try NVu. http://nvu.com/

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.
 
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Nikita the Spider
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      09-12-2006
In article <rZiNg.1484$(E-Mail Removed)-kc.rr.com>,
"Smed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
> little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
> website"...
>
> i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
> Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...
>
> why do people hate Frontpage?..


Just about all of the WYSIWYG editors produce poor quality HTML. What's
more, they encourage the bad (and common) misbelief that building a Web
page with HTML is just like laying out a page for a magazine using
Scribus or Pagemaker or Quark Xpress. Frontpage in particular likes to
produce IE-specific code which is bad for non-IE users (like myself) and
bad for standards in general.


> what editors would you recommend?..


I'll suggest Notepad but only to drive home the point that you can write
high quality, interesting pages using nothing but that simple tool. It's
worth doing (but only once!) as a learning experience. FirstPage from
evrsoft.com used to be very good, but ISTR that something has gone
downhill about their product and Web site. UltraEdit seems quite good;
I've been using it on a project for about two weeks now. It has a free
45-day eval period. Then there's JEdit which is 100% free. It is a
general programmers editor and more complicated than you need if all you
want to do is HTML.

I assume you're not using a Mac since you're asking about Frontpage, but
BBEdit is quite good on the Mac side.

--
Philip
http://NikitaTheSpider.com/
Whole-site HTML validation, link checking and more
 
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bigdaddybs
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      09-12-2006
Smed wrote:
> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
> little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
> website"...


These people don't seem to realize that you can create the page in
FrontPage Edit mode, and then edit the source to do what you wish. Yes,
there are problems with FrontPage, but there are "problems" of some
sort with ANY WYSIWYG and other editors.

Personally, I use FP in Edit mode to type in my content. (No groans...
I have absolutely NO CLUE how to use DBs for the sites I have that
could, and it's much easier to edit the HTML if FP has put the tags on
most of the stuff for me.) I do use the PREVIEW tag to double-check
that my editing has not screwed up the way I wanted the page to look,
and close it out. When I publish, FP keeps track of what pages are
linked where (images, other pages, subdirectories, whatever) on my
computer, and redoes the website links after everything's moved. (Other
editors do this, too. However, I've had cases where when I didn't use
FP for publishing, the links had to be redone "on-the-fly" live on the
web. Maybe I'm missing something here...(?))

And, yes... I have used Notepad at times. I also tried other
(admittedly free) HTML editors, and none seemed to work as well for
what I needed them to do.

Purists will probably say you should NEVER use a WYSIWYG editor, though
I'm sure all WYS's allow for much quicker and cleaner development and
prototyping. Yes, if you have your layout, you can use Notepad (or it's
cousins), though sometimes you will miss things that FP (or others)
catches.

If you feel comfortable with using FP while others don't, I don't see a
problem either. I would simply say to be careful and DO NOT USE any of
the "bells and whistles" that come with it... and DEFINITELY be careful
if you create forms and input fields. You should be able to find
examples by just searching for "forms html" or "form fields html" or
something like that, and add them into your HTML directly (FP source,
Notepad, etc.).

Everyone has their favorites.

> i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
> Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...


Personally, I don't either, and, as long as it works for me...

> why do people hate Frontpage?..


Because it's a Microsoft product, plain and simple. They (MS) created a
webpage builder so anyone who has used almost any MS (and other)
product (especially word-processors) could use it, and people hate
that!

> what editors would you recommend?..


I do agree that other MS products (Word, Excel, etc.) are VERY BAD at
creating websites. They put a LOT of extra code in the HTML (almost, if
not, EVERY line of HTML) that is unnecessary. (The only "extra" code I
leave in my FP-created/-edited pages are in the META tags.)

As I said, I've tried a few others, but as long as I'm (and you're)
aware of what FP will add in that shouldn't be there, of what it CAN'T
do, you validate your pages at http://validator.w3.org/, and the page
layouts are double-checked with AT LEAST Firefox, I, personally, don't
see a problem with it.

BS

 
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Jasbird
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      09-12-2006
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:14:59 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Smed wrote:
>
>> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give
>> that little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about
>> making a website"...

>
>I suppose it is ok for a personal/hobby site.
>
>> i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
>> Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...

>
>The best 'editor' is a text editor.


I actually use TextPad sometimes when coding because
- I prefer the search and replace functions,
- it loads instantly,
- you can add a syntax file which allows HTML to be displayed with basic
colour separation for elements, attributes, strings and content. From
this I conclude that all those people claiming to use NotePad as their
HTML editor are lying.

PS: I think I agree with the comments above too because I used to
Homesite a few years ago too. I prefer it to Dreamweaver's cluttered
layout.

Why would anyone use FrontPage in preference to GoLive, Dreamweaver,
Homesite or even TextPad?

 
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Jasbird
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      09-12-2006
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:41:11 GMT, "Smed" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
>little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
>website"...
>
>i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
>Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...
>
>why do people hate Frontpage?..
>
>what editors would you recommend?..


Ooops - The question was "why do I hate Frontpage"? I don't. I haven't
used it because everyone has recommended me not to.

What possible reason would I have for using it when I can use
recommended editors instead (like GoLive, Dreamweaver, Homesite, or
frigging TextPad)?

 
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Smed
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2006
thanks to all for the comments... i really appreciate the help...



"Smed" <...
> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
> little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
> website"...
>
> i really dont see the disadvantages to it but then i have only used
> Frontpage so i dont know the advantages to the others...
>
> why do people hate Frontpage?..
>
> what editors would you recommend?..
>
> -s
>



 
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Andrew
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      09-12-2006
On 12 Sep 2006 02:24:45 -0700, "bigdaddybs" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Smed wrote:
>> whenever i tell people i use Frontpage for my html editor, they give that
>> little laugh and say, "well i guess you aren't serious about making a
>> website"...


snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>
>> why do people hate Frontpage?..

>
>Because it's a Microsoft product, plain and simple. They (MS) created a
>webpage builder so anyone who has used almost any MS (and other)
>product (especially word-processors) could use it, and people hate
>that!


Hi Bigdaddy,

I seem to remember that many years ago Front Page was originally not
actually a Microsoft program. Did they buy out a company that was at
the time making a program called 'Front Page' and then apply the
Microsoft magic to it?

All the best,

Andrew
--

Andrew
http://www.andrews-corner.org/
 
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David Segall
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      09-12-2006
"Runnin' on Empty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Smed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:rZiNg.1484$(E-Mail Removed)-kc.rr.com...
>> what editors would you recommend?..
>>
>> -s

>
>
>Homesite+
>
>It comes packaged with Dreamweaver, but it's a separate install.

If you have already paid for Dreamweaver why do you prefer Homesite?
 
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