HTML - Problem with horizontal rule

08-18-2006, 03:53 PM

Good morning:

For some reason which I cannot determine, I am unable to make the
horizontal rule at the bottom of the page, stretch all the way across
100%. I just can't figure this out. I have looked and looked at the
simple source code on that page, and changed everything, and still it
doesn't work.

What am I overlooking here?

http://www.geocities.com/techfiddle/feeds.html

Thanks!

Perth

08-18-2006, 04:31 PM

It would help you to validate your HTML code. Use GOOGLE to find the WC3
HTML vaslidator. The problem you are having may be with the none standard
code. For instance there is no </head> to end the <head>, and you are
loading external CSS stylesheets in the BODY of your document rather than
the header section. My best guess is that you have your <hr> rule WITHIN a
div that is limiting its width . . .you can have the <hr> be 100% of the
div, but if the div isnt 100% of the document, then the <hr> wil be
constrained to whatever wiodth the <div> is.
"Perth" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Good morning:
>
> For some reason which I cannot determine, I am unable to make the
> horizontal rule at the bottom of the page, stretch all the way across
> 100%. I just can't figure this out. I have looked and looked at the
> simple source code on that page, and changed everything, and still it
> doesn't work.
>
> What am I overlooking here?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/techfiddle/feeds.html
>
> Thanks!
>

08-18-2006, 04:58 PM

Perth wrote:

[layout problems]
> What am I overlooking here?

> http://www.geocities.com

This bit is wrong. Just don't host on geocities.

Geocities splurge a chunk of JavaaScript at the top of each page,
making it impossible to put a doctype in the proper place. This means
that all pages are invalid and likely to be rendered in quirks mode. As
you've now lost one or two of the basic ground rules of trying to
deliver well-designed pages, you're doomed before you even start.

08-18-2006, 04:58 PM

rfr wrote:
> It would help you to validate your HTML code. Use GOOGLE to find the WC3
> HTML vaslidator. The problem you are having may be with the none standard
> code. For instance there is no </head> to end the <head>, and you are
> loading external CSS stylesheets in the BODY of your document rather than
> the header section. My best guess is that you have your <hr> rule WITHIN a
> div that is limiting its width . . .you can have the <hr> be 100% of the
> div, but if the div isnt 100% of the document, then the <hr> wil be
> constrained to whatever wiodth the <div> is.

Thank you for your response. I added the omitted </head>, but I have
looked at the </div> in all its instances, and it doesn't seem to be
amiss. I really have looked at this. Still don't know what's wrong.
I have not had this problem on the 300 or so other pages in which I
have used this code in identical fashion.

08-18-2006, 05:03 PM

Andy Dingley wrote:
> Perth wrote:
>
> [layout problems]
> > What am I overlooking here?
>
> > http://www.geocities.com
>
> This bit is wrong. Just don't host on geocities.
>
>
> Geocities splurge a chunk of JavaaScript at the top of each page,
> making it impossible to put a doctype in the proper place. This means
> that all pages are invalid and likely to be rendered in quirks mode. As
> you've now lost one or two of the basic ground rules of trying to
> deliver well-designed pages, you're doomed before you even start.

So it's just a GC quirk? I think you're probably right. I'm gong to
move it all at some point to a different server and add Google ads, but
not yet.

Thanks for looking!

Oh -- any recommendations for a new server??

08-18-2006, 05:22 PM

Perth <> scripsit:

> Good morning:

Hello down there. It's 7 PM here.

> - - I am unable to make the
> horizontal rule - - stretch all the way across 100%.

I wonder what you mean by stretching all the way across 100%. In <hr>, the
_default_ is width="100%", i.e. the entire available width. But maybe you
want more than everything?

The point is that the <body> element tends to have some default margin or
padding, since texts would look uncomfortable if they started at the very
border of the canvas.

You can use
body { margin: 0; padding: 0; }
and then a <hr> will extend across the entire canvas. However, then you
should probably take care of putting your content inside a container that
has some padding or margin, e.g.

<body>
<div class="content">
content proper here
</div>
<hr>
<div class="content">
more content
</div>

with, say,
..content { padding: 0.3em 0.5em 0.3em 1em; }

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

08-18-2006, 09:44 PM

What I sometimes do in situations like this is to employ a brute force
method.

I take the document apart and save each part, then put it back together
again, piece by piece until I find what it is that is triggering the
problem.

In your case, you might try taking pieces OUT, piece by piece.

I also should mention that you have a lot of code there that is
non-standard. Some coding is there BEFORE the <HTML> and some is there AFTER
the </HTML>. And you are trying to load an external CSS file within the BODY
section of your code. It is these features that led me to mention that you
validate your HTML. The problem triggering the malfuntion of the <HR> may
be caused by other malfuntioning HTML.

I sometimes find that a problem that is occuring in a specific area of a
document is being caused by some error "upstream", earlier in the document.
Look "upstream".

Your plea for help was felt here. I am not an HTML or CSS guru by any means.
I am as frustrated as you are over these quirks. I have a few of these going
on now too, mostly cross-browser issues. These tips on what I would do are
all I can do for you.

"Perth" <> wrote in message
news: ups.com...
>
> rfr wrote:
>> It would help you to validate your HTML code. Use GOOGLE to find the WC3
>> HTML vaslidator. The problem you are having may be with the none standard
>> code. For instance there is no </head> to end the <head>, and you are
>> loading external CSS stylesheets in the BODY of your document rather than
>> the header section. My best guess is that you have your <hr> rule WITHIN
>> a
>> div that is limiting its width . . .you can have the <hr> be 100% of the
>> div, but if the div isnt 100% of the document, then the <hr> wil be
>> constrained to whatever wiodth the <div> is.
>
>
> Thank you for your response. I added the omitted </head>, but I have
> looked at the </div> in all its instances, and it doesn't seem to be
> amiss. I really have looked at this. Still don't know what's wrong.
> I have not had this problem on the 300 or so other pages in which I
> have used this code in identical fashion.
>

08-19-2006, 08:06 AM

rfr <> scripsit:

> What I sometimes do in situations like this is to employ a brute force
> method.

Thank you for the usual clueless indicator of starting without quoting or
paraphrasing the part of a message you are responding to. The style called
"upside-down fullquoting" or "TOFU" (Text Oben, Fullquote Unten) is very
useful for telling that you didn't comprehensively read the message you
respond to and that you are giving wrong answers or answering wrong
questions.

> In your case, you might try taking pieces OUT, piece by piece.

Actually, in both HTML authoring and in programming, the effective method is
to start from something simple and robust and then put additional things IN,
until some problem emerges and you can kill it softly.

> The problem triggering the malfuntion of the <HR>

What malfunction?

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

08-19-2006, 02:28 PM

"Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

>
>> In your case, you might try taking pieces OUT, piece by piece.
>
>Actually, in both HTML authoring and in programming, the effective method is
>to start from something simple and robust and then put additional things IN,
>until some problem emerges and you can kill it softly.
It may be "effective" but it is extraordinarily inefficient. In most
cases a binary search will reveal the problem with the minimum of
effort. With a piece of electronic apparatus, a computer program or a
web page if you can repeatedly discover which half contains the
problem you can kill it quickly.

08-19-2006, 11:15 PM

In article <TLyFg.6757$>,
"Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

> Actually, in both HTML authoring and in programming, the effective method is
> to start from something simple and robust and then put additional things IN,
> until some problem emerges and you can kill it softly.

Or brutally, considering how the factor will stand out starkly
and invite a repugnance.

--
dorayme

08-18-2006, 04:31 PM	#2
rfr Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule It would help you to validate your HTML code. Use GOOGLE to find the WC3 HTML vaslidator. The problem you are having may be with the none standard code. For instance there is no </head> to end the <head>, and you are loading external CSS stylesheets in the BODY of your document rather than the header section. My best guess is that you have your <hr> rule WITHIN a div that is limiting its width . . .you can have the <hr> be 100% of the div, but if the div isnt 100% of the document, then the <hr> wil be constrained to whatever wiodth the <div> is. "Perth" <> wrote in message news: oups.com... > Good morning: > > For some reason which I cannot determine, I am unable to make the > horizontal rule at the bottom of the page, stretch all the way across > 100%. I just can't figure this out. I have looked and looked at the > simple source code on that page, and changed everything, and still it > doesn't work. > > What am I overlooking here? > > http://www.geocities.com/techfiddle/feeds.html > > Thanks! >

08-18-2006, 04:58 PM	#3
Andy Dingley Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule Perth wrote: [layout problems] > What am I overlooking here? > http://www.geocities.com This bit is wrong. Just don't host on geocities. Geocities splurge a chunk of JavaaScript at the top of each page, making it impossible to put a doctype in the proper place. This means that all pages are invalid and likely to be rendered in quirks mode. As you've now lost one or two of the basic ground rules of trying to deliver well-designed pages, you're doomed before you even start.

08-18-2006, 04:58 PM	#4
Perth Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule rfr wrote: > It would help you to validate your HTML code. Use GOOGLE to find the WC3 > HTML vaslidator. The problem you are having may be with the none standard > code. For instance there is no </head> to end the <head>, and you are > loading external CSS stylesheets in the BODY of your document rather than > the header section. My best guess is that you have your <hr> rule WITHIN a > div that is limiting its width . . .you can have the <hr> be 100% of the > div, but if the div isnt 100% of the document, then the <hr> wil be > constrained to whatever wiodth the <div> is. Thank you for your response. I added the omitted </head>, but I have looked at the </div> in all its instances, and it doesn't seem to be amiss. I really have looked at this. Still don't know what's wrong. I have not had this problem on the 300 or so other pages in which I have used this code in identical fashion.

08-18-2006, 05:03 PM	#5
Perth Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule Andy Dingley wrote: > Perth wrote: > > [layout problems] > > What am I overlooking here? > > > http://www.geocities.com > > This bit is wrong. Just don't host on geocities. > > > Geocities splurge a chunk of JavaaScript at the top of each page, > making it impossible to put a doctype in the proper place. This means > that all pages are invalid and likely to be rendered in quirks mode. As > you've now lost one or two of the basic ground rules of trying to > deliver well-designed pages, you're doomed before you even start. So it's just a GC quirk? I think you're probably right. I'm gong to move it all at some point to a different server and add Google ads, but not yet. Thanks for looking! Oh -- any recommendations for a new server??

08-18-2006, 05:22 PM	#6
Jukka K. Korpela Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule Perth <> scripsit: > Good morning: Hello down there. It's 7 PM here. > - - I am unable to make the > horizontal rule - - stretch all the way across 100%. I wonder what you mean by stretching all the way across 100%. In <hr>, the _default_ is width="100%", i.e. the entire available width. But maybe you want more than everything? The point is that the <body> element tends to have some default margin or padding, since texts would look uncomfortable if they started at the very border of the canvas. You can use body { margin: 0; padding: 0; } and then a <hr> will extend across the entire canvas. However, then you should probably take care of putting your content inside a container that has some padding or margin, e.g. <body> <div class="content"> content proper here </div> <hr> <div class="content"> more content </div> with, say, ..content { padding: 0.3em 0.5em 0.3em 1em; } -- Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca") http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

08-18-2006, 03:53 PM	#1
	Problem with horizontal rule Good morning: For some reason which I cannot determine, I am unable to make the horizontal rule at the bottom of the page, stretch all the way across 100%. I just can't figure this out. I have looked and looked at the simple source code on that page, and changed everything, and still it doesn't work. What am I overlooking here? http://www.geocities.com/techfiddle/feeds.html Thanks! Perth

08-18-2006, 09:44 PM	#7
rfr Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule What I sometimes do in situations like this is to employ a brute force method. I take the document apart and save each part, then put it back together again, piece by piece until I find what it is that is triggering the problem. In your case, you might try taking pieces OUT, piece by piece. I also should mention that you have a lot of code there that is non-standard. Some coding is there BEFORE the <HTML> and some is there AFTER the </HTML>. And you are trying to load an external CSS file within the BODY section of your code. It is these features that led me to mention that you validate your HTML. The problem triggering the malfuntion of the <HR> may be caused by other malfuntioning HTML. I sometimes find that a problem that is occuring in a specific area of a document is being caused by some error "upstream", earlier in the document. Look "upstream". Your plea for help was felt here. I am not an HTML or CSS guru by any means. I am as frustrated as you are over these quirks. I have a few of these going on now too, mostly cross-browser issues. These tips on what I would do are all I can do for you. "Perth" <> wrote in message news: ups.com... > > rfr wrote: >> It would help you to validate your HTML code. Use GOOGLE to find the WC3 >> HTML vaslidator. The problem you are having may be with the none standard >> code. For instance there is no </head> to end the <head>, and you are >> loading external CSS stylesheets in the BODY of your document rather than >> the header section. My best guess is that you have your <hr> rule WITHIN >> a >> div that is limiting its width . . .you can have the <hr> be 100% of the >> div, but if the div isnt 100% of the document, then the <hr> wil be >> constrained to whatever wiodth the <div> is. > > > Thank you for your response. I added the omitted </head>, but I have > looked at the </div> in all its instances, and it doesn't seem to be > amiss. I really have looked at this. Still don't know what's wrong. > I have not had this problem on the 300 or so other pages in which I > have used this code in identical fashion. >

08-19-2006, 08:06 AM	#8
Jukka K. Korpela Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule rfr <> scripsit: > What I sometimes do in situations like this is to employ a brute force > method. Thank you for the usual clueless indicator of starting without quoting or paraphrasing the part of a message you are responding to. The style called "upside-down fullquoting" or "TOFU" (Text Oben, Fullquote Unten) is very useful for telling that you didn't comprehensively read the message you respond to and that you are giving wrong answers or answering wrong questions. > In your case, you might try taking pieces OUT, piece by piece. Actually, in both HTML authoring and in programming, the effective method is to start from something simple and robust and then put additional things IN, until some problem emerges and you can kill it softly. > The problem triggering the malfuntion of the <HR> What malfunction? -- Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca") http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

08-19-2006, 02:28 PM	#9
David Segall Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote: > >> In your case, you might try taking pieces OUT, piece by piece. > >Actually, in both HTML authoring and in programming, the effective method is >to start from something simple and robust and then put additional things IN, >until some problem emerges and you can kill it softly. It may be "effective" but it is extraordinarily inefficient. In most cases a binary search will reveal the problem with the minimum of effort. With a piece of electronic apparatus, a computer program or a web page if you can repeatedly discover which half contains the problem you can kill it quickly.

08-19-2006, 11:15 PM	#10
dorayme Posts: n/a	Re: Problem with horizontal rule In article <TLyFg.6757$>, "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote: > Actually, in both HTML authoring and in programming, the effective method is > to start from something simple and robust and then put additional things IN, > until some problem emerges and you can kill it softly. Or brutally, considering how the factor will stand out starkly and invite a repugnance. -- dorayme

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