«

Should we be able to upgrade.. (our ISP [sales bloke] is saying that we need
a new installation and the upgrade isn't possible)




We currently have a 256Kb frame relay over kilostream circuit. The
confusion arises due to the location and presentation, the building is in
the backend of beyond in north Yorkshire..! The building was too far from
the exchange for copper when we had a ISDN30 installed so we managed to
wangle a free microwave link., courtesy of BT! apparently the fibre option
was prohibitive because of the costs involved in digging up the road from us
to the A19...!



Anyway we used to rely on satellite for internet connectivity but since the
microwave link we have capacity for leased lines connections, last year we
had a 256Kb dedicated circuit installed which arrives over one of the 2mbit
lines (i'm told there is capacity for 4x 2Mbit via the microwave/radio
link) there are four rj45 sockets on a NEC pasolink unit attached to the
wall at our HO one feeds into the telephone system (the ISDN30) the other
feeds into an NTU that BT provided when they installed the line, the NTU has
an X21 interface that plugs into our Cisco router/firewall (1721)



Currently we pay around £7K for the dedicated 256Kbit leased line, we're
looking at getting a 2Mbit line but we're being told it's going to need a
whole new circuit (with new setup fees) and an annual charge over £12K,
surely prices are coming down?



Is this what we should expect or are we being rung dry?



Kind regards,



Dog Ears.

"Graeme" <> wrote in message
news:VJCdnReMgMIpmjPcRVn-...
> Should we be able to upgrade.. (our ISP [sales bloke] is saying that we
> need a new installation and the upgrade isn't possible)
>
> We currently have a 256Kb frame relay over kilostream circuit. The
> confusion arises due to the location and presentation, the building is in
> the backend of beyond in north Yorkshire..! The building was too far from
> the exchange for copper when we had a ISDN30 installed so we managed to
> wangle a free microwave link., courtesy of BT! apparently the fibre
> option was prohibitive because of the costs involved in digging up the
> road from us to the A19...!
>
> Anyway we used to rely on satellite for internet connectivity but since
> the microwave link we have capacity for leased lines connections, last
> year we had a 256Kb dedicated circuit installed which arrives over one of
> the 2mbit lines (i'm told there is capacity for 4x 2Mbit via the
> microwave/radio link) there are four rj45 sockets on a NEC pasolink unit
> attached to the wall at our HO one feeds into the telephone system (the
> ISDN30) the other feeds into an NTU that BT provided when they installed
> the line, the NTU has an X21 interface that plugs into our Cisco
> router/firewall (1721)
>
> Currently we pay around £7K for the dedicated 256Kbit leased line, we're
> looking at getting a 2Mbit line but we're being told it's going to need a
> whole new circuit (with new setup fees) and an annual charge over £12K,
> surely prices are coming down?

> Is this what we should expect or are we being rung dry?

Taking into account the fact you also have ISDN 30, you may well get a
better deal from an alternative provider. Your Communications will certainly
do you a deal.
http://www.yourcommunications.co.uk


Paul

real is pjw at ntstelcom#co#uk
Landline SMS with a PC www.z-text.com

"Paul Worsley" <> wrote in message
news:41ae10a8$0$19154$...
>
> "Graeme" <> wrote in message

>
> Taking into account the fact you also have ISDN 30, you may well get a
> better deal from an alternative provider. Your Communications will
> certainly do you a deal.
eventually
> http://www.yourcommunications.co.uk
>
>
> Paul
>
> real is pjw at ntstelcom#co#uk
> Landline SMS with a PC www.z-text.com
>

"Graeme" <> wrote in message
news:VJCdnReMgMIpmjPcRVn-...
> Should we be able to upgrade.. (our ISP [sales bloke] is saying that we
need
> a new installation and the upgrade isn't possible)
>
>
>
>
> We currently have a 256Kb frame relay over kilostream circuit. The
> confusion arises due to the location and presentation, the building is in
> the backend of beyond in north Yorkshire..! The building was too far from
> the exchange for copper when we had a ISDN30 installed so we managed to
> wangle a free microwave link., courtesy of BT! apparently the fibre
option
> was prohibitive because of the costs involved in digging up the road from
us
> to the A19...!
>
>
>
> Anyway we used to rely on satellite for internet connectivity but since
the
> microwave link we have capacity for leased lines connections, last year
we
> had a 256Kb dedicated circuit installed which arrives over one of the
2mbit
> lines (i'm told there is capacity for 4x 2Mbit via the microwave/radio
> link) there are four rj45 sockets on a NEC pasolink unit attached to the
> wall at our HO one feeds into the telephone system (the ISDN30) the other
> feeds into an NTU that BT provided when they installed the line, the NTU
has
> an X21 interface that plugs into our Cisco router/firewall (1721)
>
>
>
> Currently we pay around £7K for the dedicated 256Kbit leased line, we're
> looking at getting a 2Mbit line but we're being told it's going to need a
> whole new circuit (with new setup fees) and an annual charge over £12K,
> surely prices are coming down?

You are putting the bandwidth up by a factor of 8 - even internet bandwidth
doesnt come down that much each year

Your existing N * 64k can be upgraded to 1 Mbps, just by BT changing the
circuit setup.

The same circuit may be convertible to 2 Mbps - if there arent any other N *
64k links sharing the same 2 Mbps bearer - BT often installs up to 2 on a
single 2 Mbps link.

The BT price list is online and covers the line and the ISP charges if you
use them - see
http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/homepage.htm

this bit covers megastream - you sound like you have a multi bearer link for
4 * 2 Mbps, so if there is a "spare" then you should be charged for the
"additional link" - but this is only for the 2 Mbps link at your end

the install probably covers the ISP end of the link, any backhaul from N
Yorks to the nearest PoP, router port at their end, and maybe a new router
for you... and someone has to set all this up.

>
>
>
> Is this what we should expect or are we being rung dry?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Dog Ears.
--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

"R. Mark Clayton" <> wrote in message news:<col6vh$4fb$>...
> "Paul Worsley" <> wrote in message
> news:41ae10a8$0$19154$...
> >
> > "Graeme" <> wrote in message
>
> >
> > Taking into account the fact you also have ISDN 30, you may well get a
> > better deal from an alternative provider. Your Communications will
> > certainly do you a deal.
> eventually
> > http://www.yourcommunications.co.uk
> >
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > real is pjw at ntstelcom#co#uk
> > Landline SMS with a PC www.z-text.com

I would be happy to provide you with a quotation. Just email me your
full site postcode.

Simon Clark
Independent Associate Manager for Your Communications
No Nonsense Business Telecoms from a FTSE-100 Company

email: simonclark(please note NO dot between Simon and
Clark)@yxxxcommunications.co.uk (please substitute xxx).

"Graeme" <> wrote in message
news:VJCdnReMgMIpmjPcRVn-...
> Should we be able to upgrade.. (our ISP [sales bloke] is saying that we
need
> a new installation and the upgrade isn't possible)

> We currently have a 256Kb frame relay over kilostream circuit. The
> confusion arises due to the location and presentation, the building is in
> the backend of beyond in north Yorkshire..! The building was too far from
> the exchange for copper when we had a ISDN30 installed so we managed to
> wangle a free microwave link., courtesy of BT! apparently the fibre
option
> was prohibitive because of the costs involved in digging up the road from
us
> to the A19...!
>
> Anyway we used to rely on satellite for internet connectivity but since
the
> microwave link we have capacity for leased lines connections, last year
we
> had a 256Kb dedicated circuit installed which arrives over one of the
2mbit
> lines (i'm told there is capacity for 4x 2Mbit via the microwave/radio
> link) there are four rj45 sockets on a NEC pasolink unit attached to the
> wall at our HO one feeds into the telephone system (the ISDN30) the other
> feeds into an NTU that BT provided when they installed the line, the NTU
has
> an X21 interface that plugs into our Cisco router/firewall (1721)
>
> Currently we pay around £7K for the dedicated 256Kbit leased line, we're
> looking at getting a 2Mbit line but we're being told it's going to need a
> whole new circuit (with new setup fees) and an annual charge over £12K,
> surely prices are coming down?
>
> Is this what we should expect or are we being rung dry?

If you are too far from the exchange to get some form of ADSL a leased line
based service is your only option. Because the provider has to lease a
private circuite from BT (which is an uncontended, dedicated, point to point
service) it will be a hell of a site dearer. £10-£12 K for 2Mb is probably
about right depending on how long the circuit has to be (and that's from you
to the provider, not from you to the exchange - the Microwave only covers
the first part of the thing); and also what extras you have on the
circuit/service from the ISP - i.e. IP addresses, any form of firewall, with
or without a router at your end of it etc etc etc.

Going from 256K (which uses a Kilostream "n" Bearer) upto 2Mb (using
Megastream) is always a Cease & Re-provide. You can't just upgrade the
circuit unless it was a throttled 2Mb circuit in the first place (which
would be very unlikely). Come to think of it you might be looking at an
install charge as well. The ISP is almost certainly looking at £2K-£3K from
BT for installing a new 2Mb circuit.

rgds

I.

> Your existing N * 64k can be upgraded to 1 Mbps, just by BT changing the
> circuit setup.

I should of mentioned that we really only need to upgrade to 512 or maybe
1meg
would be nice but we're being told the circuit is a dedicated 256Kb and we'd
have
to have a new circuit to faciliate any thing above 256 and that it wouldn't
be cost
effective to go for anything other then 2mbit.


> The same circuit may be convertible to 2 Mbps - if there arent any other N
> *
> 64k links sharing the same 2 Mbps bearer - BT often installs up to 2 on a
> single 2 Mbps link.

We have four bearers over the raido but other than that i cna't tell, the
line is with
an ISP but they get the circuit from Energis but BT installed the raido
equipment and
equipment in our premises,

My feeling is that the sales chap wouldn't know how the physical connection
is setup
and therefore can't categoricly determine if we can upgrade to 512 etcetera.
My next
objective is to determin exactly what i can and can't get over my existing
connection, how
do i do that?




> The BT price list is online and covers the line and the ISP charges if you
> use them - see
> http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/homepage.htm
>
> this bit covers megastream - you sound like you have a multi bearer link
> for
> 4 * 2 Mbps, so if there is a "spare" then you should be charged for the
> "additional link" - but this is only for the 2 Mbps link at your end
>
> the install probably covers the ISP end of the link, any backhaul from N
> Yorks to the nearest PoP, router port at their end, and maybe a new router
> for you... and someone has to set all this up.

The connection is to the ISP's pop in Leeds i believe, which is about
20miles from the site
(as the crow flies)

Thanks for you responses,

Kind regards,
Graeme.