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MySql

 
 
John Machin
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      07-27-2006

Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> John Machin schrieb:
> >
> > BTW, if the script doesn't contain
> >
> > base.commit()
> >
> > somewhere, take yourself out to the back lane and give yourself a good
> > thumping

>
> That's not really fair, because transactions were added to MySQL only a
> short time ago (at least to the default table type). There simply hasn't
> yet been time for every experienced MySQL user to get hit by the need to
> commit things.
>


As I said earlier, I don't use MySQL. I wasn't aware it didn't have
transactions -- what did people use it for, then? So is the upshot is
that he should thump himself for using a DBMS w/o transactions,
perhaps?

Cheers,
John

 
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Paul Boddie
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      07-27-2006
John Machin wrote:
> Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> > John Machin schrieb:
> > >
> > > base.commit()


[...]

> > That's not really fair, because transactions were added to MySQL only a
> > short time ago (at least to the default table type). There simply hasn't
> > yet been time for every experienced MySQL user to get hit by the need to
> > commit things.


This is mentioned in the MySQLdb FAQ:

http://sourceforge.net/docman/displa...group_id=22307

The default behaviour has been changed to match the DB-API standard,
which probably matches the normal behaviour on most mainstream
relational database systems.

> As I said earlier, I don't use MySQL. I wasn't aware it didn't have
> transactions -- what did people use it for, then? So is the upshot is
> that he should thump himself for using a DBMS w/o transactions,
> perhaps?


Some awareness of common practice would certainly be beneficial.
Attempting to insert data into PostgreSQL, Oracle, sqlite and so on
would produce similar results to those described. The principal
difference is that with MySQL (and presumably with things like
Microsoft Access' storage engine that no-one takes seriously anyway),
everyone has been able to get away with ignoring transactions and
considering such behaviour as normal (or not even considering that
anyone really uses anything which does anything else), and this
obviously affects software governed by such assumptions.

I suppose it's unfortunate for anyone who was using MySQLdb prior to
release 1.2.0, especially if the software didn't give any obvious
run-time warnings (not that I can say whether it did or not), but the
MySQL-centric culture of ignoring/ridiculing stuff they don't support
(and then eventually supporting it, in this case) is probably most to
blame if we have to point the finger.

Paul

 
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miker2@optusnet.com.au
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-27-2006

Paul Boddie wrote:
> John Machin wrote:
> > Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> > > John Machin schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > base.commit()

>
> [...]
>
> > > That's not really fair, because transactions were added to MySQL only a
> > > short time ago (at least to the default table type). There simply hasn't
> > > yet been time for every experienced MySQL user to get hit by the need to
> > > commit things.

>
> This is mentioned in the MySQLdb FAQ:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/docman/displa...group_id=22307
>
> The default behaviour has been changed to match the DB-API standard,
> which probably matches the normal behaviour on most mainstream
> relational database systems.
>
> > As I said earlier, I don't use MySQL. I wasn't aware it didn't have
> > transactions -- what did people use it for, then? So is the upshot is
> > that he should thump himself for using a DBMS w/o transactions,
> > perhaps?

>
> Some awareness of common practice would certainly be beneficial.
> Attempting to insert data into PostgreSQL, Oracle, sqlite and so on
> would produce similar results to those described. The principal
> difference is that with MySQL (and presumably with things like
> Microsoft Access' storage engine that no-one takes seriously anyway),
> everyone has been able to get away with ignoring transactions and
> considering such behaviour as normal (or not even considering that
> anyone really uses anything which does anything else), and this
> obviously affects software governed by such assumptions.
>
> I suppose it's unfortunate for anyone who was using MySQLdb prior to
> release 1.2.0, especially if the software didn't give any obvious
> run-time warnings (not that I can say whether it did or not), but the
> MySQL-centric culture of ignoring/ridiculing stuff they don't support
> (and then eventually supporting it, in this case) is probably most to
> blame if we have to point the finger.
>
> Paul


Thanks for the thumping, will try harder next time.
_________________________________________________

Thanks for commit comment i think that whats i need.
_________________________________________________

I think you should support people rather than pay them out despite
thier Ignorance.

 
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Paul Boddie
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      07-27-2006
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Paul Boddie wrote:
> > the MySQL-centric culture of ignoring/ridiculing stuff they don't support
> > (and then eventually supporting it, in this case) is probably most to
> > blame if we have to point the finger.


[...]

> I think you should support people rather than pay them out despite
> thier Ignorance.


For the record, I was mostly referring to MySQL AB in my finger
pointing above - there's a long history of them encouraging fashionably
non-standard thinking, ostensibly because of some radical insight into
why everyone else is supposedly doing the wrong thing, but in reality
due to some shortcomings in their product which they're not willing to
admit (at least until they've put them right).

Anyway, I think most of us are happy to help people out who are
suddenly discovering new depths to technologies they thought they
already knew.

Paul

 
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John Machin
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      07-28-2006

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>
> Thanks for the thumping, will try harder next time.
> _________________________________________________
>
> Thanks for commit comment i think that whats i need.
> _________________________________________________
>
> I think you should support people rather than pay them out despite
> thier Ignorance.


There are (at least) 3 possible responses to people who have not read
the docs and/or who say their code "doesn't work" without providing
any/enough details:

(1) No response: Ignore them, and hope evolution works -- that ain't
support
(2) Spoon-feed them -- that's support of the "life-support machine"
type
(3) Attempt to tell them how to lift their game ...

 
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