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Scientific Computing with NumPy

 
 
mclaugb
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      02-06-2006
Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
of Numeric?
I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
Thanks,
Bryan


 
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linda.s
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      02-06-2006
On 2/6/06, mclaugb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
> of Numeric?
> I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
> contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
> is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
> Thanks,
> Bryan
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?
 
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mclaugb
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      02-06-2006
This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported and
more recent.
http://numeric.scipy.org/


"linda.s" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
On 2/6/06, mclaugb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
> of Numeric?
> I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
> contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
> is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
> Thanks,
> Bryan
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?


 
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Brendan
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      02-06-2006
As of version 0.4.x, Scipy exclusively uses the newer NumPy module
instead of the older Numeric module. The confusion is inevitable in
this time of transition, but their intent is to standardize on one
array package.

Brendan
--
Brendan Simons



mclaugb wrote:
> This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported and
> more recent.
> http://numeric.scipy.org/
>
>
> "linda.s" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 2/6/06, mclaugb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
> > of Numeric?
> > I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
> > contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
> > is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
> > Thanks,
> > Bryan

> what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?


 
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mclaugb
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-06-2006
Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?
I am confused if SciPy is just the new version. they appear to be separate
things.
Bryan

"Brendan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> As of version 0.4.x, Scipy exclusively uses the newer NumPy module
> instead of the older Numeric module. The confusion is inevitable in
> this time of transition, but their intent is to standardize on one
> array package.
>
> Brendan
> --
> Brendan Simons
>
>
>
> mclaugb wrote:
>> This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported
>> and
>> more recent.
>> http://numeric.scipy.org/
>>
>>
>> "linda.s" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On 2/6/06, mclaugb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> > Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy
>> > instead
>> > of Numeric?
>> > I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which
>> > is
>> > contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that
>> > Numeric
>> > is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
>> > Thanks,
>> > Bryan

>> what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

>



 
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Travis E. Oliphant
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      02-06-2006
mclaugb wrote:
> Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?


No. They are two separate projects. Scientific Python is still
Numeric-only. SciPy 0.3.x is Numeric-based and SciPy 0.4.x is NumPy-based.

The developers for NumPy are also the developers for SciPy (for the most
part).

There is a mailing list http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) where
all of your questions can be answered.


 
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Robert Kern
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      02-06-2006
mclaugb wrote:
> Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?
> I am confused if SciPy is just the new version. they appear to be separate
> things.


They are separate projects.

--
Robert Kern
(E-Mail Removed)

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

 
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Robert Kern
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      02-06-2006
mclaugb wrote:
> Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
> of Numeric?


What "Scientific Computing" package? I don't know of any package under that
name. AFAIK, Konrad Hinsen has not yet ported his ScientificPython package to
numpy, yet.

scipy 0.4+ is ported to numpy (I recommend using an SVN checkout rather than the
tarball).

--
Robert Kern
(E-Mail Removed)

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

 
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Tim Hochberg
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      02-06-2006
mclaugb wrote:
> Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?
> I am confused if SciPy is just the new version. they appear to be separate
> things.
> Bryan


No, Scientific Python is "a collection of Python modules that are useful
for scientific computing" written by Konrad Hinsen. I'm not a user, but
you can find information here:

http://starship.python.net/~hinsen/ScientificPython/

SciPy is, I believe, a more recent and more ambitious project. In any
event it is not directly related to ScientficPython. Information here:

http://scipy.org/

Both of these packages are built on top of one of the three extant array
extensions for Python. To try to clear up some of the confusion around
those, let me summarize the states of these three packages as I
understand it:

Numeric: This is the origingal array package.

Numarray: This was written as a replacement for Numeric. It has improved
performance for large arrays. The internals were also simplified and
many other improvements were made (arrays were subclassable, numeric
signal handling vastly improved, etc). Unfortunately, a side effect of
the changes was that small array performance got worse. There was a
signifigant chunk of the numeric community for whom this was a deal
breaker and as a result there ended up being a split between the Numeric
and Numarray communities.

Numpy: This is a rewrite of Numeric that incorporates most of the
improvements in Numarray. It is designed to bring the two halves of the
Python numeric community back together. So far, it seems to have gotten
a positive reception. It is currently at 0.9.4 and I expect a stable 1.0
version in relatively short order. If I were starting with Python
numerics, this is where I would start, although I've yet to start
converting my Numarray based code over.

I hope that sheds some light on this.

regards,

-tim



>
> "Brendan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
>>As of version 0.4.x, Scipy exclusively uses the newer NumPy module
>>instead of the older Numeric module. The confusion is inevitable in
>>this time of transition, but their intent is to standardize on one
>>array package.
>>
>>Brendan
>>--
>>Brendan Simons
>>
>>
>>
>>mclaugb wrote:
>>
>>>This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported
>>>and
>>>more recent.
>>>http://numeric.scipy.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>"linda.s" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>On 2/6/06, mclaugb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy
>>>>instead
>>>>of Numeric?
>>>>I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which
>>>>is
>>>>contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that
>>>>Numeric
>>>>is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Bryan
>>>
>>>what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

>>

>
>


 
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Travis E. Oliphant
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      02-06-2006
Tim Hochberg wrote:
> mclaugb wrote:
>
>
> No, Scientific Python is "a collection of Python modules that are useful
> for scientific computing" written by Konrad Hinsen. I'm not a user, but
> you can find information here:
>
> http://starship.python.net/~hinsen/ScientificPython/
>
> SciPy is, I believe, a more recent and more ambitious project. In any
> event it is not directly related to ScientficPython. Information here:
>


SciPy's been around since 2001. ScientificPython since about 1998, I
think.

> Numeric: This is the origingal array package.
>
> Numarray: This was written as a replacement for Numeric. It has improved
> performance for large arrays. The internals were also simplified and
> many other improvements were made (arrays were subclassable, numeric
> signal handling vastly improved, etc). Unfortunately, a side effect of
> the changes was that small array performance got worse. There was a
> signifigant chunk of the numeric community for whom this was a deal
> breaker and as a result there ended up being a split between the Numeric
> and Numarray communities.


Just to be clear, small array performance was only 1 of the
"deal-breaker" problems with numarray. Anothber big problem for SciPy
was that the Numeric C-API was never fully supported (in particular the
Ufunc C-API). This made it more difficult to convert to numarray.
Thus, porting never happened. The small-array speed issue just made
porting that much less enticing.

>
> Numpy: This is a rewrite of Numeric that incorporates most of the
> improvements in Numarray.


The goal is to incorporate *all* of the improvements (unless being
written in Python is one of the improvements). If there are missing
improvements we need to know about them.


Thanks to Tim for spreading some light on the issue. There will no
doubt be continued confusion for new users over the coming months.
Hopefully, with time the confusion will fade as more people use NumPy
and any remainging issues get resolved.

-Travis

 
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