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Re:Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

 
 
David T
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      11-13-2005
>
> Thomas Edison (I think it was him) once said it took 999 failures to
> make 1 success. That makes SourceForge 10 times more successful.
>
>
>
>> The world is filled with
>> millions of wanna-be poets, writers and creators whose sum total
>> contribution to the artistic wealth of the world is negative.
>>
>>

>
>
>
>> I'm not just using hyperbole. By poisoning the well with their
>> garbage,
>> they just make it that little bit harder for genuinely talented
>> artists to
>> be heard.
>>
>>

>
> Whose opinion? Yours, or the market's?
>
>



Just my $0.02:

Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
works.

Walt Disney was a creator. Disney Inc. is not the creator, but has
managed to twist copyright laws to maintain control of Walt's mouse.
Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of
the works _he_ was stealing. (See episode 7 of "From the Earth to the
Moon" miniseries, re Georges Méliès' 1902 silent film «Le Voyage dans
la lune»)
Edwin Howard Armstrong invented FM radio (and even got the patent),
but RCA won the war. The giant corporation was able to twist
regulations to drive Edwin to a despairing death.

Today, Anne A. Mator might create a new character for Disney Inc.,
but the copyright belongs to Disney Inc., not Anne.
Professor Suchn Such of Abig University might write a book, but "The
Regents of Abig University" get the copyright.
Annin Ventor might build a better widget for Transnational Megacorp,
but Annin will probably never see a dime of profit or recognition.


Why? IMHO, most inventors, writers and artists have too much to do
and too little spare money to pay lobbyists to have laws written for
them. Giant corporations do have the money to get laws written for
them. Still, I've never seen a creative corporation or a creative
law. The best corporations and governments can do is foster an
environment where creativity flourishes and is justly rewarded.

Thus, I must express my gratitude to all of those programmers who
write open-source code (even if it doesn't go anywhere), and even
shareware, and other works which are made available and open at no or
reasonable cost. The Python community most of all.

A free and open marketplace of ideas and products is quite capable of
separating the triticale from the chaff.

It makes all of us more productive!

--David


 
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Erik Max Francis
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      11-13-2005
David T wrote:

> Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
> works.


When someone pays you to create a work, then they own the copyright, not
you. It's called work for hire.

--
Erik Max Francis && http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
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-- Albert Camus
 
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Steven D'Aprano
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      11-13-2005
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:16:43 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> David T wrote:
>
>> Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
>> works.

>
> When someone pays you to create a work, then they own the copyright, not
> you. It's called work for hire.


That is *not* generally true, although it is true in certain industries,
such as newspapers.

Book publishers, for instance, do not generally own the copyright even if
they ask you to write a book. Until the 1978 Copyright Act, neither did
record labels: the creative musician owned the copyright.

See http://www.cdbaby.net/articles/courtney_love.html for details of how
the major record labels, through their enforcement arm the RIAA, stole
rights from the creative artists that they claim to represent.


--
Steven.

 
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Bruno Desthuilliers
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      11-13-2005
Erik Max Francis a écrit :
> David T wrote:
>
>> Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
>> works.

>
>
> When someone pays you to create a work, then they own the copyright,


Depends on the country's laws and the exact agreement.
 
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Erik Max Francis
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      11-13-2005
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> Depends on the country's laws and the exact agreement.


Work for hire is part of the Berne convention.

--
Erik Max Francis && (E-Mail Removed) && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
 
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Erik Max Francis
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      11-13-2005
Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> That is *not* generally true, although it is true in certain industries,
> such as newspapers.


It is true in many industries, including the software industry. My
point was that the creator of a work and the copyright holder and not
necessarily one and the same. Often, in fact, they are not.

--
Erik Max Francis && (E-Mail Removed) && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
 
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Alex Martelli
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      11-14-2005
David T <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
...
> Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of


I'm not aware of any move to California for either the better-known
Thomas Alva Edison, or his lesser-known and less successful son of the
same name. Could you clarify? The movie industry was born in
California to skirt around some of Edison's (and others') patents, but
that's a whole 'nother story, of course.


Alex
 
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David T
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      11-14-2005
I realize that this thread skirts with being OT, but there are
serious implications for Pythonistas and Open Source software types.

I didn't mean to suggest that T.E. moved to California. I did,
however, misspeak (mis-type?) when I said Edison formed a studio in
California. His was in NJ, according to Google and other officious
oracles.

A few different accounts of Edison's relationship to the film industry:

http://www.filmsite.org/pre20sintro2.html
http://www.cobbles.com/simpp_archive/edison_trust.htm

FYI, as a newbie to _this_ list, I had some difficulties with my
first post to this thread earlier today.

It follows at the end of this post.
On Nov 13, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

> David T <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> ...
>> Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of

>
> I'm not aware of any move to California for either the better-known
> Thomas Alva Edison, or his lesser-known and less successful son of the
> same name. Could you clarify? The movie industry was born in
> California to skirt around some of Edison's (and others') patents, but
> that's a whole 'nother story, of course.
>
>
> Alex
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



Just my $0.02:

Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
works.

Walt Disney was a creator. Disney Inc. is not the creator, but has
managed to twist copyright laws to maintain control of Walt's mouse.
Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of
the works _he_ was stealing. (See episode 7 of "From the Earth to the
Moon" miniseries, re Georges Méliès' 1902 silent film «Le Voyage dans
la lune»)
Edwin Howard Armstrong invented FM radio (and even got the patent),
but RCA won the war. The giant corporation was able to twist
regulations to drive Edwin to a despairing death.

Today, Anne A. Mator might create a new character for Disney Inc.,
but the copyright belongs to Disney Inc., not Anne.
Professor Suchn Such of Abig University might write a book, but "The
Regents of Abig University" get the copyright.
Annin Ventor might build a better widget for Transnational Megacorp,
but Annin will probably never see a dime of profit or recognition.


Why? IMHO, most inventors, writers and artists have too much to do
and too little spare money to pay lobbyists to have laws written for
them. Giant corporations do have the money to get laws written for
them. Still, I've never seen a creative corporation or a creative
law. The best corporations and governments can do is foster an
environment where creativity flourishes and is justly rewarded.

Thus, I must express my gratitude to all of those programmers who
write open-source code (even if it doesn't go anywhere), and even
shareware, and other works which are made available and open at no or
reasonable cost. The Python community most of all.

A free and open marketplace of ideas and products is quite capable of
separating the triticale from the chaff.

It makes all of us more productive!

--David




 
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garabik-news-2005-05@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2005
Erik Max Francis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>
>> Depends on the country's laws and the exact agreement.

>
> Work for hire is part of the Berne convention.
>


According to recent (2003) Slovak copyright law, ONLY the individual
authors own the copyright, and they cannot transfer it even if they
want. Of course, the right to publish and sell and profit from their
works can be transfered to their employers, if specified so in the
contract.

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