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Django Vs Rails

 
 
Alan Kennedy
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      09-06-2005
[D H]
>>Go with Rails. Django is only like a month old.


[bruno modulix]
> Please take time to read the project's page. Django has in fact three
> years of existence and is already used on production websites, so it's
> far from pre-alpha/planning stage.


But the APIs still aren't 100% stable.

http://www.djangoproject.com/screenc...syntax_change/

--
alan kennedy
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email alan: http://xhaus.com/contact/alan
 
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bruno modulix
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      09-06-2005
D H wrote:
> bruno modulix wrote:
>
>> D H wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>> Go with Rails. Django is only like a month old.

>>
>>
>> Please take time to read the project's page. Django has in fact three
>> years of existence and is already used on production websites, so it's
>> far from pre-alpha/planning stage.
>>

>
> Don't make any assumptions about what I have and haven't read.


Don't make the assumption that the advice to read the project's page was
directed to you only !-)

> Django
> was only publicly released in mid-July. Less than two months ago.
> I never implied it was "pre-alpha" or in a "planning" stage.


That what I understood from your post, and I guess most readers would
understand it that way.

Now the fact that Django, while being young as a publicly realeased
project, has in fact 3 years of existence *on production websites* is
IMHO worth mentioning, so peoples who haven't read the project's page
yet don't make the assumption that it must be too young to be usable in
production. The "take time to read..." advice was directed to these
people as well !-)

Regards
--
bruno desthuilliers
ruby -e "print '(E-Mail Removed)'.split('@').collect{|p|
p.split('.').collect{|w| w.reverse}.join('.')}.join('@')"
 
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gene tani
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      09-06-2005
just to make it really easy, there's some really good blogs and
detailed analyses of the frameworks, competition is good:

http://del.icio.us/tag/rails+django

gene tani wrote:
> Here's another, (i'm just flipping thru del.icio.us and furl tags, not


 
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Terry Reedy
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      09-06-2005

"bruno modulix" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:431dca31$0$29335$(E-Mail Removed)...
>D H wrote:
>
> (snip)
>> Go with Rails. Django is only like a month old.

>
> Please take time to read the project's page. Django has in fact three
> years of existence and is already used on production websites, so it's
> far from pre-alpha/planning stage.


One can also check it out in action.
http://www.ljworld.com/ is the site it was developed for.



 
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Greg McIntyre
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      09-08-2005

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> I tried to find out if subway and
> rails can do the same - that is, generate the sql. For subway the lack
> of documentation prevented that, and I didn't find it in rails , too.


In Rails you can do that with the command:

$ rake db_structure_dump

However I think it's not the prescribed way of using it because it
tends to involve losing all your data every time you make a schema
change. I think they recommend doing this once at the start of
development if you don't have a DB schema yet. Once you're up and
running, if you rely on ALTER TABLE type commands and manually update
your code to match the new schema, although it's more work it leaves
your data intact. I think that's the idea anyway.


> And there is at least one shortcoming to the first approach, when using
> the most popular RDBMS, MySQL: The lack of foreign key constraints makes
> me wonder how to automatically infer 1:n or m:n relationships. From a
> rails tutorial, I see that one has to declare these too:
>
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2...ls.html?page=5
>
>
> But maybe someone who has expirience with subway or rails can elaborate
> on this?


>From my experience with Rails, the OR mapping isn't hugely automated.

That is, some manual work is required if you change the schema, to
update the code that operates upon it. However although this is another
step it is pretty trivial due to the metaprogramming style methods.
Besides, if you're altering the schema you tend to have to update some
code anyway as you're most likely altering the functionality of the
system a little. And as I said above, a loose/manual OR mapping has its
benefits; I don't feel anxious about losing my data/schema when using
Rails because I know it leaves it alone.

 
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flamesrock
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      09-08-2005
Wow- thanks for all of the replies. I'm torn.

On the one hand, I'm fluent in Python and love it.

On the other, Rails seems to have a brighter future, and is a bit more
featureful (at this time.) However the only Ruby I know is what I've
already learnt with Python(even though I would like to learn it).

How difficult would it be to learn Ruby+Rails, assuming that someone is
already skilled with Python?

Is it worth it?

 
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James
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      09-08-2005
I actually like the framework to reflect on my database. I am more of a
visual person. I have tools for all my favorite databases that allow me
to get a glance of ER diagrams and I would rather develop my data
models in these tools rather than in code. Further more I rather like
the idea of parsimonious use of code (which is probably why I use
Python in the first place) and do not really like manually specifying
data schemas in code as much as possible.

Is some familiar with a Python Framework that builds by reflection.

 
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Marek Kubica
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      09-08-2005
Hello!

On 7 Sep 2005 20:56:28 -0700 flamesrock wrote:

> On the other, Rails seems to have a brighter future,

Why that? Django is not yet released and everybody is talking about it.
Like it happened with RoR.

> How difficult would it be to learn Ruby+Rails, assuming that someone is
> already skilled with Python?

Learning Ruby: quite trivial, as Ruby is like Python, but sometimes there a
Ruby-way and a non-Ruby-way (codeblocks and stuff like this) and to write
nice Ruby programs you better write in the Ruby-way.

> Is it worth it?

Well, I've learned it, because it was easy but I haven't yet found a really
significant difference that makes Ruby much better than Python. You can
write some things in an very elegant way, but sometimes the Python solution
is more readable. But the docs are sometimes.. say: very compact .
As Ruby is not that hard to learn you could give it a try - maybe you'll
like it, maybe not.

RoR is not the only framework, some folks prefer Nitro.

greets,
Marek
 
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Ian Bicking
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      09-14-2005
Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> - rails/subway reflect over a existing table. They create OR-mappings
> based on that. You only specify exceptional attributes for these mappings.
>
> - django specifies the whole meta-model in python - and _generates_
> the SQL/DDL to populate the DB. So obviously you have to be more verbose
> - otherwiese you won't have the fields you need.


Subway is built on SQLObject, and SQLObject can both create tables and
read schemas from an existing database. I don't know what style is
preferred at the moment in Subway, but personally I always create my
tables with SQLObject because I always end up enumerating all the
features of the tables eventually anyway.

 
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Jeff Shell
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      09-14-2005
My opinion, as posted there, was pretty immediate and only going off of
surface values. I just saw in Django what I had seen too much of in my
own code. I've written similar things in Zope and Formulator that did
all sorts of fancy automatic 'admin screen' generation, DBMS CRUD
statements. I even applied those same tricks to LDAP with some success.
So some of what I saw with Django reminded me of code that I both loved
and hated - it made my data management work easy, but it was ugly and
hard to navigate and maintain, and I could never remember even my own
shortcuts and options of what to have in my nested dictionaries and
lists and tuples that defined all of these structures.

It was also an all-too-quick response in that I perceived, wrongly,
that Django was another Rails clone. I was quickly corrected on this,
and believe I posted a correction later. As I've said in some other
posts on my site - I don't really care much for the Python "Web
Frameworks" which go off and try to mimic the technology of the day.
I've been through competing with Perl, with Servlets, with J2EE, with
PHP/ASP, and now with Rails, and just about every implementation I've
seen of these has been underwhelming, to say the least. I myself am
guilty of writing an early WebObjects inspired toolkit back in '96.
Django is its own thing, and I give it credit for that. Some recent
changes to the Django model syntax make it more palatable to my tastes,
but I doubt that I'll personally be leaving Zope 2 or 3 for any of
these systems any time soon. Zope / Principia / Bobo have all served me
well for nearly a decade now, and Zope 3 makes ZODB based Zope
development so easy and powerful that I hope to never have need of an
ORM system again. These ORM tools like SQLObject and ActiveRecord still
seem best suited for writing applications from scratch. Ian Bicking and
Django people both have stated here that you can "conveniently generate
SQL/DDL to populate the DB". If that's the situation, an object
database like the ZODB or Durus may work just as well, without the
translation to SQL and back. ORM only gets interesting to me these days
when I have to map to to large scale pre-existing systems, and even
there I'm having better experiences with other styles of storage to
application data translation, validation, security, and management.

 
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