«

Hello,

We have many frame relay circuits some in very remote locations. Some
have what's know as 'extended demarc' where the carrier pushes out
their NIU, Network Interface Unit, as far as they can. Then the smart
jack is pushed out as far as they can, and then their wire that runs
to our dsu/csu is thousands of feet. Before we get into legal battles,
as Frame Relay is a lata-wide, tarriffed data service, I thought I'd
solicit this group for ideas on using test equipment to prove that the
problem is in their equipment, and the lack of signal strength or
signal spread, do to distance limitation. Our IOS config files are
very simple and do not change during these outage periods. I have MRTG
setup to track the circuits and you can clearly see itermittant
problems for days, until the router crashes. Of coarst the carrier's
position is CPE (customer premise equipment) but, we show up and cycle
and supposedly that fixes the problems.

We have had one internal dsu/csu card go bad, so I think we need
addtional circuit protection on these extended demarcs. Any ideas
on fast acting circuit protection that does not attenuate the signal
too much?

Beside a T-bird or a Firebird, or a BERT meter, is anyone familiar
with test meters that can show a range of signal strenghts? Is their a
smart dsu that can perform and log the signal strenght losses? Is
there anyway to log energy surges on the wires entering the internal
dsu/csu to see if the problem is due to lighting or other sources of
energy surge?

WE're using 1721's with internal DSU/CSU, but, I may switch to an
external dsu/csu to see if that helps. Regardless of whether we use
and internal dsu/csu or an external, we have thousands of feet of
copper wire running outside in burried cable between our dsu/csu and
the carrier's smart jack.....

Ideas?


James

In article <>,
says...
> We have many frame relay circuits some in very remote locations. Some
> have what's know as 'extended demarc' where the carrier pushes out
> their NIU, Network Interface Unit, as far as they can. Then the smart
> jack is pushed out as far as they can, and then their wire that runs
> to our dsu/csu is thousands of feet. Before we get into legal battles,
> as Frame Relay is a lata-wide, tarriffed data service, I thought I'd
> solicit this group for ideas on using test equipment to prove that the
> problem is in their equipment, and the lack of signal strength or
> signal spread, do to distance limitation. Our IOS config files are
> very simple and do not change during these outage periods. I have MRTG
> setup to track the circuits and you can clearly see itermittant
> problems for days, until the router crashes. Of coarst the carrier's
> position is CPE (customer premise equipment) but, we show up and cycle
> and supposedly that fixes the problems.
>
> We have had one internal dsu/csu card go bad, so I think we need
> addtional circuit protection on these extended demarcs. Any ideas
> on fast acting circuit protection that does not attenuate the signal
> too much?
>
> Beside a T-bird or a Firebird, or a BERT meter, is anyone familiar
> with test meters that can show a range of signal strenghts? Is their a
> smart dsu that can perform and log the signal strenght losses? Is
> there anyway to log energy surges on the wires entering the internal
> dsu/csu to see if the problem is due to lighting or other sources of
> energy surge?
>
> WE're using 1721's with internal DSU/CSU, but, I may switch to an
> external dsu/csu to see if that helps. Regardless of whether we use
> and internal dsu/csu or an external, we have thousands of feet of
> copper wire running outside in burried cable between our dsu/csu and
> the carrier's smart jack.....

Thousands of feet?!? Are you using proper T1 cables or just a CAT5
cable?

sho controller serialX/Y

should tell you some T1 specific info at the bottom.

You may be able to get better performance if you use "invert txclock"
under the WIC-1-DSU serial interface.


--

hsb

"Somehow I imagined this experience would be more rewarding" Calvin
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We ran into a similar problem where the Demarc was 1/4 to 1 mile plus from
the place where we needed the router to be - wire between the two locations
was typically 22 AWG. We discovered, the maximum allowable Demarc extension
for T-1 Frame-Relay per standards is 325 feet - in order to extended the
Demarc further we purchased T-1 repeaters from Black Box - we have one site
running 6,500 feet with a repeater at each end - the repeaters are rated up
to 2.4 miles.

Don Woodward


"James" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Hello,
>
> We have many frame relay circuits some in very remote locations. Some
> have what's know as 'extended demarc' where the carrier pushes out
> their NIU, Network Interface Unit, as far as they can. Then the smart
> jack is pushed out as far as they can, and then their wire that runs
> to our dsu/csu is thousands of feet. Before we get into legal battles,
> as Frame Relay is a lata-wide, tarriffed data service, I thought I'd
> solicit this group for ideas on using test equipment to prove that the
> problem is in their equipment, and the lack of signal strength or
> signal spread, do to distance limitation. Our IOS config files are
> very simple and do not change during these outage periods. I have MRTG
> setup to track the circuits and you can clearly see itermittant
> problems for days, until the router crashes. Of coarst the carrier's
> position is CPE (customer premise equipment) but, we show up and cycle
> and supposedly that fixes the problems.
>
> We have had one internal dsu/csu card go bad, so I think we need
> addtional circuit protection on these extended demarcs. Any ideas
> on fast acting circuit protection that does not attenuate the signal
> too much?
>
> Beside a T-bird or a Firebird, or a BERT meter, is anyone familiar
> with test meters that can show a range of signal strenghts? Is their a
> smart dsu that can perform and log the signal strenght losses? Is
> there anyway to log energy surges on the wires entering the internal
> dsu/csu to see if the problem is due to lighting or other sources of
> energy surge?
>
> WE're using 1721's with internal DSU/CSU, but, I may switch to an
> external dsu/csu to see if that helps. Regardless of whether we use
> and internal dsu/csu or an external, we have thousands of feet of
> copper wire running outside in burried cable between our dsu/csu and
> the carrier's smart jack.....
>
> Ideas?
>
>
> James
>

Hansang Bae wrote:
> In article <>,
> says...
>
>>We have many frame relay circuits some in very remote locations. Some
>>have what's know as 'extended demarc' where the carrier pushes out
>>their NIU, Network Interface Unit, as far as they can. Then the smart
>>jack is pushed out as far as they can, and then their wire that runs
>>to our dsu/csu is thousands of feet. Before we get into legal battles,
>>as Frame Relay is a lata-wide, tarriffed data service, I thought I'd
>>solicit this group for ideas on using test equipment to prove that the
>>problem is in their equipment, and the lack of signal strength or
>>signal spread, do to distance limitation. Our IOS config files are
>>very simple and do not change during these outage periods. I have MRTG
>>setup to track the circuits and you can clearly see itermittant
>>problems for days, until the router crashes. Of coarst the carrier's
>>position is CPE (customer premise equipment) but, we show up and cycle
>>and supposedly that fixes the problems.
>>
>>We have had one internal dsu/csu card go bad, so I think we need
>>addtional circuit protection on these extended demarcs. Any ideas
>>on fast acting circuit protection that does not attenuate the signal
>>too much?
>>
>>Beside a T-bird or a Firebird, or a BERT meter, is anyone familiar
>>with test meters that can show a range of signal strenghts? Is their a
>>smart dsu that can perform and log the signal strenght losses? Is
>>there anyway to log energy surges on the wires entering the internal
>>dsu/csu to see if the problem is due to lighting or other sources of
>>energy surge?
>>
>>WE're using 1721's with internal DSU/CSU, but, I may switch to an
>>external dsu/csu to see if that helps. Regardless of whether we use
>>and internal dsu/csu or an external, we have thousands of feet of
>>copper wire running outside in burried cable between our dsu/csu and
>>the carrier's smart jack.....
>
>
> Thousands of feet?!? Are you using proper T1 cables or just a CAT5
> cable?

We did not extend the demarc. The carrier did just to reach our remote
building. It's there wire. This is not a customer extended demarc, but
one the carrier is at the fringe of their service, a very remote location.


>
> sho controller serialX/Y
>
> should tell you some T1 specific info at the bottom.
>
> You may be able to get better performance if you use "invert txclock"
> under the WIC-1-DSU serial interface.
>

Now you are the first person who has responded with any IOS ideas,
which is what I'm looking for!

Bravo! and thanks I'll give these a whirl.... Any pointers where I can
find similar or obscure IOS command ideas are most welcome!

James

News Account wrote:
> We ran into a similar problem where the Demarc was 1/4 to 1 mile plus from
> the place where we needed the router to be - wire between the two locations
> was typically 22 AWG. We discovered, the maximum allowable Demarc extension
> for T-1 Frame-Relay per standards is 325 feet - in order to extended the
> Demarc further we purchased T-1 repeaters from Black Box - we have one site
> running 6,500 feet with a repeater at each end - the repeaters are rated up
> to 2.4 miles.
>
This is not a customer extended Demarc. It's the carrier to just reach
our extremely remote building. I already suggested they put in
repeaters on this DS0 circuit, but, that requires sending the circuit
back to engineering. Verizon installation techs are not allowed to
think any more by Verizons stupid MBA managers..... Myself and the
Verizon techs agree on what to do, but, idiot managers with MBAs do
not what to listen to either group....

Sad, real sad. I only thought GTE had issues. Since Verizon has taken
over, they are pathetic now.....

And the idiots at the FCC think these big congomerates are actually
wonderful...................(michael powell is an idiot!!!!!!!!!!)

James



> Don Woodward
>
>
> "James" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>We have many frame relay circuits some in very remote locations. Some
>>have what's know as 'extended demarc' where the carrier pushes out
>>their NIU, Network Interface Unit, as far as they can. Then the smart
>>jack is pushed out as far as they can, and then their wire that runs
>>to our dsu/csu is thousands of feet. Before we get into legal battles,
>>as Frame Relay is a lata-wide, tarriffed data service, I thought I'd
>>solicit this group for ideas on using test equipment to prove that the
>>problem is in their equipment, and the lack of signal strength or
>>signal spread, do to distance limitation. Our IOS config files are
>>very simple and do not change during these outage periods. I have MRTG
>>setup to track the circuits and you can clearly see itermittant
>>problems for days, until the router crashes. Of coarst the carrier's
>>position is CPE (customer premise equipment) but, we show up and cycle
>>and supposedly that fixes the problems.
>>
>>We have had one internal dsu/csu card go bad, so I think we need
>>addtional circuit protection on these extended demarcs. Any ideas
>>on fast acting circuit protection that does not attenuate the signal
>>too much?
>>
>>Beside a T-bird or a Firebird, or a BERT meter, is anyone familiar
>>with test meters that can show a range of signal strenghts? Is their a
>>smart dsu that can perform and log the signal strenght losses? Is
>>there anyway to log energy surges on the wires entering the internal
>>dsu/csu to see if the problem is due to lighting or other sources of
>>energy surge?
>>
>>WE're using 1721's with internal DSU/CSU, but, I may switch to an
>>external dsu/csu to see if that helps. Regardless of whether we use
>>and internal dsu/csu or an external, we have thousands of feet of
>>copper wire running outside in burried cable between our dsu/csu and
>>the carrier's smart jack.....
>>
>>Ideas?
>>
>>
>>James
>>
>
>
>
>