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Python mascot proposal

 
 
Keith Dart
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      12-14-2004
Dimitri Tcaciuc wrote:
> Yup, I was aware of the fact of Monty Python roots of the language name.
> However, you will probably agree that a snake is more associative.
>
> Plus, if to use some characteristic MP feature like a giant foot, I'm
> not positive that it won't trigger any copyright issues.


I prefer an alternate meaning:

2. A diviner by spirits. ``[Manasses] observed omens, and
appointed pythons.'' --4 Kings xxi. 6 (Douay version).


Since Python is a divine language, and conjures up quick solutions to
ghastly problems. And, in the spirit of oracles, reflects the wisdom of
the languages design.

Now, how about an icon that conveys something like that? hm... smoke
curled around wizard perhaps?


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Terry Hancock
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      12-16-2004
In reply to the OP, I think the snake mascot drawing is cute and
pretty compelling.

On Sunday 12 December 2004 05:49 pm, Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> 1) I think that Python's logo should reflect its power.
> If we use a mascot as its image, we would be giving the wrong idea:
> that Python is a "toy" language, instead of a very good alternative to
> other mainstream languages.


No way. One of Python's greatest strengths is that it's *friendly*:
easy to learn, easy to recall, easy to re-read after you put it down.
That it is also extremely powerful is something it shares with several
other languages.

A friendly logo can be just as (if not more) compelling than a "cool"
logo.

> 2) We should also bear in mind Guido's oppinion about using a snake for
> identifying Python.


He should've called it "Monty" then. I say we use a snake and *call* it
"Monty". Works for me.

> 3) And finally, we should consider it very seriously. Image is not
> everything, but it is very important for "marketing" a product. I'm
> sure that if Java didn't have a cool name and a cool logo, it wouldn't
> have been that succesfull.


Okay, fine. The one with sunglasses, then.

Cheers,
Terry

--
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Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com

 
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Dimitri Tcaciuc
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      12-16-2004
Hm, interesting. So I'm hearing lots of different opinions here, but it
seems like there's not too many radical thoughts about not using snake
at all and it can be pretty much summed up to 2 things
1) use a snake
2) combine snake with -some- monty python's symbolic

I personally totally like the thought of calling the snake Monty, I
couldn't even think of any other alternatives.

But before pushing forward any particular design, maybe it will make
sense to make some sort of official logo contest on Python's main
website and post it on /. ?

That should be a better option, since there obviously are waaay more
great artists out there than the ones that somehow got on these
newsgroups

So the question is, how can this be arranged? I am pretty new to Python
in general, so I don't know how this community's clockwork is arranged
and who to contact about that.

Any opinions?

Dimitri.
 
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Carlos Ribeiro
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      12-16-2004
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 07:42:38 GMT, Dimitri Tcaciuc <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hm, interesting. So I'm hearing lots of different opinions here, but it
> seems like there's not too many radical thoughts about not using snake
> at all and it can be pretty much summed up to 2 things
> 1) use a snake
> 2) combine snake with -some- monty python's symbolic


+1 on both counts.

> I personally totally like the thought of calling the snake Monty, I
> couldn't even think of any other alternatives.


+1 too.

> But before pushing forward any particular design, maybe it will make
> sense to make some sort of official logo contest on Python's main
> website and post it on /. ?


It's a great marketing idea. There was a thread recently on Python-dev
that started with a message from Guido, where he talks about a
seemingly persistent perception that exists in the specialized press
regarding Python as a flexible, nice, but generally slow (or slower
than the alternatives) language. The thread ended up as a discussion
about Python marketing & advocacy in general. So I think that the
timing is good.

But on the other hand, making this into a open contest takes more than
a simple announcement on Slashdot. Some things need to be arranged
first:

1) Our vote may count, but Guido's opinion not only count, it's
decisive. So I believe that's better for we to hear his opinion before
we even start talking about it seriously.

2) The folks are python-dev are much more involved with Python than
most people that gather around comp.lang.python. Their opinion is also
important. However, to announce it on the python-dev list out of the
blue is not a good idea; the list is highly focused on Python
development issues, and is not the place for this discussion. I would
prefer that some senior member (Guido himself, or some of the other
old-timers) did the announcement on Ptyhon-dev, if only to make people
know about it.

3) Finally, if there's a competition, there must be a decision
process. It may be democratic voting, it may be a comitee, it may be
Guido's opinion, I don't know. But the conditions need to be clear
from the start.

> That should be a better option, since there obviously are waaay more
> great artists out there than the ones that somehow got on these
> newsgroups
>
> So the question is, how can this be arranged? I am pretty new to Python
> in general, so I don't know how this community's clockwork is arranged
> and who to contact about that.


I don't know... posting it on Python-dev would raise the attention of
some folks, but may bother others, as this is really off-topic there.
As far as I know, Python does not have a official contact for
marketing issues. Maybe if just need to keep going with the discussion
here, until someone who really knows the Python Ways "buys" the idea.

And finally, Dimitri - congratulations for the design, but most
important, for the attitude.

--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
mail: (E-Mail Removed)
 
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Luis M. Gonzalez
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      12-16-2004
> > But before pushing forward any particular design, maybe it will
make
> > sense to make some sort of official logo contest on Python's main
> > website and post it on /. ?

>


I was waiting for someone to propose that
I'm new to this list and Python in general, but I think that this sort
of things are always decided by Guido.
I think we have two options:

1) Simply start the contest and see what happens. If it attrackts many
competitors, I guess it will be considered by the core developers.
2) Ask for permition and let them define the rules.

Perhaps the BDFL is reading this thread and has something to say about
it?

 
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EP
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      12-16-2004

> It's a great marketing idea. There was a thread recently on Python-dev
> that started with a message from Guido, where he talks about a
> seemingly persistent perception that exists in the specialized press
> regarding Python as a flexible, nice, but generally slow (or slower
> than the alternatives) language.



Perception of the press: Python is "flexible, nice, but generally slow"

Well, the snake mascot as drawn is, of course, very flexible, appears to be friendly, and is, well, just how fast is a big snake, esp. a python? It'll get there, slithering along, but it doesn't really conjure up a "beaming" between two galaxies in a nanosecond image.

I like Monty (the snake), but perhaps there are liabilities arising from having a mascot (what is the mascot for C++?)

Of course all those speed comparisons on the web don't help either.



EP

"Fast enough is only fast enough for today, not for tomorrow's possibilities. Network speeds will increase by a magnitude, ahead of processing power - then code execution speed will be a limiting factor."

Oh, and while I'm wishing for the Moon, can I have a builtin Prolog/logic object.

hey, Python is better than I deserve: mucho thanks to Guido and the core Pythonistas...

 
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Peter Hansen
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      12-16-2004
EP wrote:
>>It's a great marketing idea. There was a thread recently on Python-dev
>>that started with a message from Guido, where he talks about a
>>seemingly persistent perception that exists in the specialized press
>>regarding Python as a flexible, nice, but generally slow (or slower
>>than the alternatives) language.

>
> Perception of the press: Python is "flexible, nice, but generally slow"


Which press? I know lots of programmers who have religious issues
about (against) Python believe this, or claim to, or want to, but
I haven't seen a lot of "press" coverage of Python's supposed slowness...

Or was this just a guess on your part?

-Peter
 
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sdeibel@wingware.com
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      12-16-2004
Please note that to make something official, it has to be passed
through the Python Software Foundation, which holds the intellectual
property for Python and is responsible for trademarks associated with
the language.

If you're serious about doing this, you may want to email "psf at
python dot org" to get information from the board of directors (I'm one
of them, BTW, but I can't speak for the whole group).

It would be nice to have a single strongly identifiable visual
trademark for Python. There are many icons/logos that people have
invented but none that's "official" and having many tends to dilute the
ability to build a strong well-known visual trademark.

- Stephan

 
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Stephen Kellett
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      12-16-2004
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, EP
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Well, the snake mascot as drawn is, of course, very flexible, appears
>to be friendly, and is, well, just how fast is a big snake, esp. a
>python?


I don't know about Pythons but there is a black snake in Africa (a black
mamba?) that when it stands up is taller than a man. This snake can out
"run" a man in straight line or over rough ground. I saw a TV program
where they'd attached a camera to its head. Absolutely incredible
watching this thing whizzing through the undergrowth in search of a
mate. Don't think all snakes are slow - they aren't.

BTW. The suggestions - I like them, for what little that is worth.

Stephen
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
 
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Luis M. Gonzalez
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      12-16-2004
Stephan,

Since you're one of the directors of the Python Software Foundation,
could you let them know about this discussion in order to get their
approval?
If they agree, maybe you can tell us where and how to held the contest.

Just one thought:
I think that it would be good to not determine a deadline for the
contest.
We should let anyone submit their designs until a clear winner shows
up, or until Guido or the board of directors chooses a winner.

 
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