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Re: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python

 
 
Bishara Gabriel
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      09-29-2004
I would be most willing to work with you in insuring that the specifics
of public health are accounted for and one is then able to witness and
experiment with the varying outcomes of various health promotion
campaigns and interventions.

Cameron was indeed correct to point out pre-existing efforts in this
area, and I immediately corrected the wording so as we no long assert
that we will be "introducing" OOP to the social sciences. Cameron
verified that I had corrected the issue appropriately. Pre-existing
efforts will be acknowledged on our website pending its launch. The PSF
has made clear that they favor concise proposals, and such references
within the proposal would extend beyond the scope of the call.

By "other" GPL, I assume you mean LGPL? We most likely will use the GPL
but this may be discussed further. It has not been etched in stone as yet.

Thank you for your encouragements and enthusiastic commentary. We very
much value feedback.

Let me know if you would like to participate in the project.

Sincerely,
Bishara Gabriel
 
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Corey Coughlin
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      10-01-2004
Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented. I can
see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler.
So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.



Bishara Gabriel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> I would be most willing to work with you in insuring that the specifics
> of public health are accounted for and one is then able to witness and
> experiment with the varying outcomes of various health promotion
> campaigns and interventions.
>
> Cameron was indeed correct to point out pre-existing efforts in this
> area, and I immediately corrected the wording so as we no long assert
> that we will be "introducing" OOP to the social sciences. Cameron
> verified that I had corrected the issue appropriately. Pre-existing
> efforts will be acknowledged on our website pending its launch. The PSF
> has made clear that they favor concise proposals, and such references
> within the proposal would extend beyond the scope of the call.
>
> By "other" GPL, I assume you mean LGPL? We most likely will use the GPL
> but this may be discussed further. It has not been etched in stone as yet.
>
> Thank you for your encouragements and enthusiastic commentary. We very
> much value feedback.
>
> Let me know if you would like to participate in the project.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bishara Gabriel

 
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Bishara Gabriel
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      10-01-2004
Corey Coughlin wrote:

>Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
>human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
>a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
>we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
>supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented. I can
>see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler.
>So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.
>
>
>

C??? My, that isn't even C++. That must have been a real pain (mind
stretcher) I imagine. What is your area of specialty?

Thanks for the encouragement. We also are hoping to have a lot of success!
 
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Tim Churches
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      10-01-2004
On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 04:46, Corey Coughlin wrote:
> Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
> human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
> a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
> we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
> supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented. I can
> see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler.
> So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.


Yes, my 9 yr old son loves playing SimCity (so do I) - see
http://simcity.ea.com A political economy plug-in for SimCity would be
cool. Maybe the Social Analysis and Modeling for Python project should
also look at the Pygame framework (see http://www.pygame.org )? Just
don't tell the academics...

--

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0



 
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Corey Coughlin
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      10-06-2004
Yeah, working with C made it pretty horrible, you had to use records
and functions to try to simulate objects, and basically it meant that
anytime someone made a change, there was often an unfortunate ripple
effect. And the memory leaks, ugh. And my background was electrical
engineering, so that didn't help too much, but I picked things up
pretty quickly. I made a little knock off version of the program
that, instead of simulating an entire population, took a single
individual and did a monte carlo simulation of possible futures of
that person. The results were a little more personal that way. But
that was all a long time ago, I'm sure the state of the art is far
beyond that now.

-------- Corey


Bishara Gabriel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Corey Coughlin wrote:
>
> >Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
> >human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
> >a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
> >we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
> >supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented. I can
> >see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler.
> >So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.
> >
> >
> >

> C??? My, that isn't even C++. That must have been a real pain (mind
> stretcher) I imagine. What is your area of specialty?
>
> Thanks for the encouragement. We also are hoping to have a lot of success!

 
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Tim Churches
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      10-06-2004
On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 07:19, Corey Coughlin wrote:
> Yeah, working with C made it pretty horrible, you had to use records
> and functions to try to simulate objects, and basically it meant that
> anytime someone made a change, there was often an unfortunate ripple
> effect. And the memory leaks, ugh. And my background was electrical
> engineering, so that didn't help too much, but I picked things up
> pretty quickly. I made a little knock off version of the program
> that, instead of simulating an entire population, took a single
> individual and did a monte carlo simulation of possible futures of
> that person. The results were a little more personal that way. But
> that was all a long time ago, I'm sure the state of the art is far
> beyond that now.


Seriously, the benchmark these days are games like SimCity, Civilisation
and Age of Empires, or The Sims for a more personal perspective.
Spending a few days playing these games is mandatory research for the
Social Analysis and Modelling for Python team.

Are there any existing open source or commercial simulation games
written in or scriptable with Python, I wonder?
--

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0



 
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Bishara Gabriel
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      10-07-2004
Tim Churches wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
>
>Seriously, the benchmark these days are games like SimCity, Civilisation
>and Age of Empires, or The Sims for a more personal perspective.
>Spending a few days playing these games is mandatory research for the
>Social Analysis and Modelling for Python team.
>
>Are there any existing open source or commercial simulation games
>written in or scriptable with Python, I wonder?
>
>

Well, we did not budget into the proposal the purchase of SimCity,
Civilization, and/or Age of Empires. So I do not think this will at all
play into our design. However, if someone would like to donate these
games to our effort, we would then be capable of incorporating and
taking into account their simulative qualities.

I do not know of any python simulation games, just RPGs and FPSs which
use Python as a glue and game engine driver. There are open source
simulations though, just not in Python. Remember though that this is
not intended to be some sort of simplistic, fun, entertainment oriented
development. It is (in theoretical existence) a serious academic tool
intended to serve the demands of social scientific research.

Sincerely,
Bishara Gabriel
 
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Bishara Gabriel
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      10-07-2004
Tim,
I agree entirely that it would be optimum for us not to confine
ourselves to purely traditional academic arenas. Nevertheless, the
scope of our project, as dictated by our proposal, already demands a
great deal of us in a relatively short period of time. We therefore
must narrow our efforts to focus on the specifics outlined in the
proposal.

Indeed, a separate mailing-list would be advantageous to the respective
members of the project. Note though that the project has not yet been
approved for support by the PSF. If by some unfortunate factors it was
rejected, I can make no guarantees as to the capabilities of David and I
in regards to fulfilling the project expectations.

Best Regards,
Bishara Gabriel
 
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