Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Programming > Python > A new OS

Reply
Thread Tools

A new OS

 
 
A Evans
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-12-2004
Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.

Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
support this project would recieve

Cheers

Andrew


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Peter Hansen
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-12-2004
A Evans wrote:

> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
>
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve


I would never even consider such a thing (supporting it, that is) unless
someone explained in detail what they saw as the disadvantages of
current operating systems (e.g. Linux) and what they felt Python would
contribute which would make their product so "revolutionary".

-Peter
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
bobb
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-12-2004
This reminds me of the discount book I saw once
"How to build your own 32 bit operationg system"
I wouldn't bother. (I agree w/ peter hansen)

"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in

something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
>
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrew
>
>



 
Reply With Quote
 
Corey Coughlin
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-12-2004
I think it sounds like a great idea. I'd ultimately like to go a
direction like that at some point. One of the biggest problems with
existing operating systems (like Windows or Linux) is that they are
for the most part built on C, which then dictates what the low level
calls look like, the memory architecture, and so on. Writing an OS in
Python could give you a new perspective on mapping a high level
architecture onto a machine. Imagine, for instance, an OS
architecture with a genuine object hierarchy, where low level details
get abstracted into a machine level that can be swapped out to conform
to different processor architectures, where garbage collection is an
OS service, and maybe the filesystem is actually an object persistance
system, so every file is actually an object with type instead of a bag
of bytes, and then imagine how easy it would be to add advanced
indexing a la Chandler to it. Could we then distribute programs as
only python bytecode, getting platform independence? Would it be
easier adding security using higher levels of abstraction? How about
creating a complete network OS? Would that be easier in python? In
general, as you abstract complex os services into simpler python code,
would it be easier to expand the capabilities of your os? I can't
imagine that it would be harder. It could be quite an interesting
project, if conducted with the aim of not just making yet another
generic operating system, but with the aim of creating a truly
pythonic OS. That would be great.




"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
>
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrew

 
Reply With Quote
 
A Evans
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-12-2004
Hello Everyone and thanks for the replies

Yes It would be an entire OS made from Python. When I have something started
I will come back to this forum and see then who would be interested. As
asking for support is the wrong choice of words.

What I should of said:

Does anyone have any ideas to implement something this large and once I have
a solid foundation to build from then who would be willing to help support
the development of this project

Thank You

A. Evans


 
Reply With Quote
 
Harald Massa
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-13-2004
Hello A. Evans,

I propose you should take a look at PyPy first.

PyPy is an attempt to realise Python in Python. Because "IN THE END" your
Operating System must run on existing hardware. And there is a step between
Python and Assembler...

With standard CPython it is C-language, with Jython it is Java.

But there can be C-Errors in Python and C-Errors within Java ... so to get
"only Python", you need a PythonPython first.

Am I wrong?

Harald
 
Reply With Quote
 
Gerrit
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-13-2004
Corey Coughlin wrote:
> "A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> > Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> > recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> > like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> >
> > Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> > support this project would recieve


http://sourceforge.net/projects/cleese
http://cleese.sourceforge.net/

I don't believe in it.

Gerrit.

--
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 13/04 12:25:
11.0°C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 3.6 m/s NE (-2 m above NAP)
--
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/

 
Reply With Quote
 
Peter Hansen
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-13-2004
Gerrit wrote:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/cleese
> http://cleese.sourceforge.net/
>
> I don't believe in it.


Apparently no one else really does either, to judge from
http://cleese.sourceforge.net/cgi-bi.../RecentChanges

-Peter
 
Reply With Quote
 
Anton Vredegoor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-13-2004
Harald Massa <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I propose you should take a look at PyPy first.
>
>PyPy is an attempt to realise Python in Python. Because "IN THE END" your
>Operating System must run on existing hardware. And there is a step between
>Python and Assembler...
>
>With standard CPython it is C-language, with Jython it is Java.
>
>But there can be C-Errors in Python and C-Errors within Java ... so to get
>"only Python", you need a PythonPython first.
>
>Am I wrong?


Yes I think so. PyPy is a nice project, but it is a kind of all or
nothing project. What is needed is something like Prothon, but even
smaller.

Prothon is using a set of separate dlls (f.e. dict.dll, list.dll etc.)
to provide the basic objects. This is a lot better than what Python is
doing at the moment, because Python depends on one megadll
(pythonxx.dll) for these objects.

The problem with this approach is that all objects have to be compiled
using the same compiler, while it would theoretically be possible to
write one dll using C, another using Lisp another using assembler and
another using something else.

Prothon theoretically could do that, but it loads the basic dlls the
moment the interpreter is started, which makes it dependent on having
all these dlls available (and possibly all dlls need to be compiled
using the same compiler, I don't know about that).

What is needed for Python to come closer to the OS and to enable it to
advance faster is a bootstrapping interpreter which basically only
provides a ctypes alike functionality that enables it to import a set
of basic Python object dlls in the same way as if it were standard
operating system dlls. It would make no difference for the interpreter
if it imported dict.dll or for example kernel32.dll, but of course
this strategy would introduce needing to have *some* dlls imported
before all others in order to provide basic functionality. This is
currently necessary for the __future__ extension too so there is a
precedent already. I expect such a beast to have a footprint of about
100k.

There would be no problems with Python extensions needing to be
compiled with a certain C-compiler since all dlls would be required to
conform to the dlls of the operating system.

This would bring Python a lot closer to seamless interaction with the
operating system and enable it to eventually turn into not a
completely separate operating system but into something akin to Cygwin
(which is a kind of Linux running under Windows).

Another advantage would be that it would be possible to update Python
in smaller steps, for example only a newer dict.dll, this time a dll
written in assembler or even in Lisp. For systems that don't have this
compilers older dict.dll files would still be available.

Some Python scripts could have a really small footprint as if it were
Lua scripts because we only need to provide those dlls that the script
uses, sometimes only dlls that the operating system already has, or
dlls that are in Cygwin, Visual Basic or C# and which are freely
available on the net. In the latter case probably some flexible dll
loader functionality would be necessary, hence the need for ctypes.

Or we could compile the necessary dlls on the fly using a Python
compile-to-os-specific-dll script that only needed a few standard
Python dlls itself.

Since I'm not an OS-guru or even know a lot about the lower level
details (though I have been able to write and compile extensions in C)
I might be wrong about the feasibility of such a project (maybe it can
be done but the standardization of dll interfaces would be
prohibitively difficult given Pythons dynamic and platform independent
development cycle) but I remain confident that this is the way to go.

(I'm Dutch you know, so I can't be proven wrong unless you've got a
timemachine, I have used mine to post the same kind of idea about half
a year ago and I *will* use it to retroactively fix *this* post in
case there are problems with it )

Anton




 
Reply With Quote
 
Yermat
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-13-2004
A Evans a écrit :
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
>
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrew
>
>


Taking a look at the Isaac Project may give you some hints...
http://www.isaacos.com/

It's based on an object-oriented and dynanism language named lisaac
(even inheritage is dynamic).

--
Yermat

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Javascript new-new-new-new-newbee weblinkunlimited@gmail.com Javascript 2 03-11-2008 01:15 AM
New computer, New OS, New Wireless Problem :-\ =?Utf-8?B?RGFu?= Wireless Networking 3 07-31-2005 02:11 PM
[Firefox] Use New Tab instead of New Window? paul j Firefox 7 04-07-2005 09:40 PM
Why can not register a new .net passport or a new hotmail account Alick Lv MCSD 1 01-04-2004 06:12 PM



Advertisments