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Re: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision

 
 
Ed Cogburn
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      03-05-2004
David McNab wrote:
> My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the
> name of PMW.



Have you also tried wxPython? I'm not advocating, just want to know if you've
also tried "the other one". What does PMW do for Tkinter? I've seen
opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than (standard) Tkinter, but I've
never seen PMW mentioned before when comparing the two. If you've used
wxPython previously, how does Tkinter+PMW compare to it? Anyone?


 
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Alan Gauld
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      03-06-2004
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:32:27 -0500, Ed Cogburn
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the
> > name of PMW.

>
> Have you also tried wxPython? I'm not advocating, just want to know if you've
> also tried "the other one".


I've tried both and wxPython is more similar in my view to
traditional GUI toolkits like MFC on Windows etc.

Any heavy duty GUI work I do in Delphi and so my Python GUI work
tends to be fairly simple. Since I was already familiar with Tk
then Tkinter is a far easier system to learn. There are fewer
widgets and copious documentation. THe wxPython alternatoive
offers more widgets but less documentation, and much of that in
C++ - and its not as easy to translate as some would have you
believe!

OTOH wxPython does produce slightly nicer looking windows at the
end of the day.


> What does PMW do for Tkinter?


Add a bunch of missing widgets and dialogs. And again these are
actually documented, even in a book - Grayson's Tkinter book.

AboutDialog, Ballon, ButtonBox, ComboBox(and variants), Counters,
EntryField(inc validation), MenuBar, MessageBar, Notebook(tabbed,
with variants), ScrolledCanvas, ScrolledField, ScrolledFrame,
etc...

> opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than (standard) Tkinter, but I've
> never seen PMW mentioned before when comparing the two. If you've used
> wxPython previously, how does Tkinter+PMW compare to it?


PMW closes the gap but if you are in the business of producing
commercial quality GUI apps using Python I guess wxPython would
be better than Tkinter (but not necessarily pyQt/pyGTk).

Alan G.

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld
 
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Peter Hansen
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      03-07-2004
Ed Cogburn wrote:

> David McNab wrote:
>
>> My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the
>> name of PMW.

>
> Have you also tried wxPython? I'm not advocating, just want to know if
> you've also tried "the other one". What does PMW do for Tkinter?
> I've seen opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than (standard)
> Tkinter, but I've never seen PMW mentioned before when comparing the
> two. If you've used wxPython previously, how does Tkinter+PMW compare
> to it? Anyone?


I've used both, and didn't find PMW any more compelling than I found
Tkinter alone. I still find that wxPython fits my brain better and
gives me better results. This, however, is an area where individual
mileage definitely varies, based on past reports here that strongly
support either the one or the other approach depending on who's writing.

-Peter
 
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Christian Tismer
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      03-07-2004
Peter Hansen wrote:

> Ed Cogburn wrote:
>
>> David McNab wrote:
>>
>>> My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the
>>> name of PMW.

>>
>>
>> Have you also tried wxPython? I'm not advocating, just want to know
>> if you've also tried "the other one". What does PMW do for
>> Tkinter? I've seen opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than
>> (standard) Tkinter, but I've never seen PMW mentioned before when
>> comparing the two. If you've used wxPython previously, how does
>> Tkinter+PMW compare to it? Anyone?

>
>
> I've used both, and didn't find PMW any more compelling than I found
> Tkinter alone. I still find that wxPython fits my brain better and
> gives me better results. This, however, is an area where individual
> mileage definitely varies, based on past reports here that strongly
> support either the one or the other approach depending on who's writing.


If I may add to this:
I have been using wxPython for 1.5 years, now. And I'm not
completely happy, I'm just pleased. I heared that QT is
smaller and more capable, should also be more elegant.
Can't really judge it. The problem with QT is that it is not
free for commercial products under Windows.

wxPython has some subtle hurdles which can cost you days of
research, annoying when you are used to the ease of Delphi
for GUI development. For instance, I wanted to grab keyboard
events on a wxStaticBitmap object and almost didn't get any.
After a longer search, I found a note that this only works
if you switch of tab processing for the enclosing wxFrame
objects. For me as (in this case the application
programmer, this is just bad, and almost unsolveable without
the help of the mailing list. I also doubt that this behavior
necessarily has to be implemented in this rigorous way.

There is also a serious strugle with flicker. Meanwhile, I
solved all these issues for me, but again, this took days and
weeks of research. With Delphi, I never had this problem.
Now I *have* smooth, flicker free display of little movies
with wxPython, but I had to do all the drawing by myself,
had to remove all implicit calls to erase the background,
and it is a huge code cruft. Anyway, it works very fine.

So I can't recommend wxPython wholeheartedly, it has cost me
much more efforts than I wanted to invest.
On the other hand, it is free, and it does it's job, in the
end. As a positive add-on, there is Boa Constructor, which
I happily use to create my wxPython stuff. It is still young,
very ambitious but not really ready, but I like it very much.

I will look into PyGame, which does not have a GUI at all,
but seems to be quite simple and platform-independant, and
I'm thinking to write my own GUI layer on top of it.
This would of course be Stackless Python centered from the
ground. I'm not sure if it will happen in this life,
but I'm thinking positive.

Until then, I will continue to cope with wxPython. I don't
say it is perfect, but I do say it can be what you want.

cheers -- chris

--
Christian Tismer :^) <(E-Mail Removed)>
Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
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Terry Reedy
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      03-07-2004

"Christian Tismer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I will look into PyGame, which does not have a GUI at all,


There is a gui-sort-of-package 'associated' in some sense with PyGame.
Forget name. Main difference from 'imitate native look and feel' packages
is that one can define own renderer to give quite different look and feel,
as most games do.

tjr




 
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Jarek Zgoda
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      03-07-2004
Christian Tismer <(E-Mail Removed)> pisze:

> So I can't recommend wxPython wholeheartedly, it has cost me
> much more efforts than I wanted to invest.
> On the other hand, it is free, and it does it's job, in the
> end. As a positive add-on, there is Boa Constructor, which
> I happily use to create my wxPython stuff. It is still young,
> very ambitious but not really ready, but I like it very much.


I have the very same opinion. Coming from Delphi, I found wxPython
relatively easy and similar to some degree, but when I tried to do some
less usual things with wxGrid, I've had hard time and spend many days
looking for some specific answers. OTOH, I use PyQt for ~6 months and
had no such problems, but the licensing restricts its use to X11 -- no
big deal for me, but may be unacceptable for others.

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
 
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Christian Tismer
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      03-07-2004
Terry Reedy wrote:

> "Christian Tismer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>I will look into PyGame, which does not have a GUI at all,

>
>
> There is a gui-sort-of-package 'associated' in some sense with PyGame.
> Forget name. Main difference from 'imitate native look and feel' packages
> is that one can define own renderer to give quite different look and feel,
> as most games do.


Maybe this is
http://pyui.sourceforge.net/

I will have a look. Thanks a lot!

--
Christian Tismer :^) <(E-Mail Removed)>
Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/


 
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