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what is best for web development??

 
 
ketulp_baroda@yahoo.com
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      01-14-2004
hi
graham is right.I used the term "client" in the
business sense, not the client/server sense; and i am trying to
write a Web application that is easy to deploy on clients'
(customers') servers.sorry for the confusion.
 
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ketulp_baroda@yahoo.com
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      01-14-2004
hi
the application should work with Apache or IIS web server.
 
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Lothar Scholz
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      01-14-2004
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed) om>...
> Wilk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.


> If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
> written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
> bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
> on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
> require/desire.


I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
important point for larger customers.

I would recommend webware+Fun Form Kit+cheeta together with apache.
 
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Cameron Laird
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      01-14-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
Lothar Scholz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>(E-Mail Removed) (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message
>news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
>> Wilk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.

>
>> If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
>> written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
>> bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
>> on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
>> require/desire.

>
>I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
>seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
>know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
>it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
>important point for larger customers.
>
>I would recommend webware+Fun Form Kit+cheeta together with apache.


I'm unsure what you're recommending. We're considering a self-contained
Web application, including the Web server itself. Are you proposing:
1. An installer which does a conventional Apache
installation, except with enough stuff confi-
gured so it comes up in a safe state, PLUS
a separate installation segment just for the
Python-based part; or
2. A custom installer which knows internal details
of both Apache and the Python-based application?

What advantage do you see for either of these over the pure-Python ap-
proach suggested above? Is your point that customers feel more
comfortable with "Apache inside"?
--

Cameron Laird <(E-Mail Removed)>
Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
 
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Graham Fawcett
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      01-15-2004
(E-Mail Removed) (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> (E-Mail Removed) (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed) om>...
> > Wilk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.

>
> > If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
> > written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
> > bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
> > on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
> > require/desire.

>
> I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
> seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
> know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
> it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
> important point for larger customers.


Therefore, you are suggesting ASP running on IIS? Or JSP + SunONE +
Oracle? <0.5 wink> Few Python solutions would satisfy the customer who
bears this level of concern.

There are countless potential customers for Intranet applications who
will never be able to install Apache. Many of them will never meet a
"normal administrator" -- by which I assume you mean the "FOSS-savvy,
got Knoppix right here on my keydrive" variety, not the
MS/Lotus/Netware kind -- let alone employ one. They still deserve and
will pay for Intranet apps, and the company that can deliver and
deploy them easily will have a business advantage.

(I will never forget the first time I delivered such an app to a
client, and told him "just run the setup program", and he had a fully
functional Web app -- Web server, database and all -- running 40
seconds later. Nor will I forget the funny sound his jaw made as it
hit the floor.)

Lastly, almost any app that will run on a Python web server will also
run on Apache et. al., right? Unless you design it with Apache-centric
features; but I don't know if your concerned customer would appreciate
unnecessary platform lock-in! Offer both a Quick-Start and an FCGI
flavour of your app, and let the customer decide what he's capable of
administering.

In my book, an application that scales down (embedded httpd) as well
as up (Apache, etc.) beats a scaled-up-and-nowhere-to-go app any day.

Best wishes,

-- G
 
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ketulp_baroda@yahoo.com
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      01-15-2004
We're not considering a self-contained Web application, including the
Web server itself. The Web server could be any Apache , IIS or the
python ones. It depends on the customer.

(E-Mail Removed) (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
> Lothar Scholz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >(E-Mail Removed) (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message
> >news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> >> Wilk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.

>
> >> If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
> >> written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
> >> bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
> >> on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
> >> require/desire.

> >
> >I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
> >seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
> >know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
> >it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
> >important point for larger customers.
> >
> >I would recommend webware+Fun Form Kit+cheeta together with apache.

>
> I'm unsure what you're recommending. We're considering a self-contained
> Web application, including the Web server itself. Are you proposing:
> 1. An installer which does a conventional Apache
> installation, except with enough stuff confi-
> gured so it comes up in a safe state, PLUS
> a separate installation segment just for the
> Python-based part; or
> 2. A custom installer which knows internal details
> of both Apache and the Python-based application?
>
> What advantage do you see for either of these over the pure-Python ap-
> proach suggested above? Is your point that customers feel more
> comfortable with "Apache inside"?

 
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Lothar Scholz
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-15-2004
(E-Mail Removed) (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
>
> I'm unsure what you're recommending. We're considering a self-contained
> Web application, including the Web server itself. Are you proposing:
> 1. An installer which does a conventional Apache
> installation, except with enough stuff confi-
> gured so it comes up in a safe state, PLUS
> a separate installation segment just for the
> Python-based part; or
> 2. A custom installer which knows internal details
> of both Apache and the Python-based application?
>
> What advantage do you see for either of these over the pure-Python ap-
> proach suggested above? Is your point that customers feel more
> comfortable with "Apache inside"?


I would use (2), simply because (1) could have influences with an
existing installation. I hate the window programs who install
apache/php and kill my machine (like Numegas PHPEd or Magumas older
version). Such an installation should never use the standart paths,
ports or anything else.

And yes "Apache inside" is a very good marketing argument. Apache has
proven to be robust to most of the denial of service attacks and if
there is a good administrator in the company he can update it easily
with security patches.

I found that companies that are sensitive to security issues try to
avoid home grown server as much as possible.
 
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aj
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      01-15-2004
hi
i am a newbi to python and developing a web application
what do u all think is the best application framework for developing
web application in python. I want a framework that supports
templates,database connectivity, is available for both unix and
windows.
Zope
Quixote
Draco or others
I read some stuff about all these frameworks and i think zope is a good one
But wanna know what you all think


Wilk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> (E-Mail Removed) writes:
>
> > Wilk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> >> (E-Mail Removed) writes:
> >>
> >> > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
> >> > should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
> >> > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
> >> > I am really confused and need help
> >>
> >> It depends of the kind of application you want to do exactly, there are
> >> many possibilities from cgi to zope...
> >>
> >> Look into the archive of the list, you'll find a lot of answer to this
> >> question. Or describe more what you need.
> >>
> >> bye

> >
> >
> > hey thanks for ur reply
> > i am developing an issue tracking system

>
> There is one that you can look at : http://roundup.sf.net
> I think it can be used in standalone server or cgi.
>
> > the primary requirements are
> > 1)it should be platform independent which i think python will take
> > care of
> > 2)it should have customizable gui .I am thinking of using templates
> > for this like Cheetah. Is there any other better solution to Cheetah?

>
> There is no better solution than Cheetah : there is others solutions...
>
> > The problem i am facing here is i dont know what to use for
> > development of the application. I came across many ways to develop web
> > application in python which I already specified like
> > i)the cgi module in python
> > ii)Python Server Pages
> > iii)Quixote
> > iv)WebWare
> > v)Zope etc.
> > I want to choose such an environment so that i dont have to install
> > other softwares to run my application.For eg. I think if I develop
> > using zope then the client also has to install zope to run my software
> > and i dont want this.

>
> When you use one of theses servers, you don't need to install anything
> else than a classic browser on the client side.
> On the server side, most of the servers will not need anything else, you
> can even start without server with the batterie include :
> BasicHTTPServer (it was somes examples on this list somes days ago).
>
> bye

 
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