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Slogan: Getting Rich Overnight

 
 
Christian Tismer
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      08-09-2003
Dear friends.

During a conversation with good friends and newly acquired
Pythonista, we were discussing Python, what it is in essence,
and what it is giving to us.

The people were Dinu Gherman, Giorgio Giacomazzi,
a promizing newcomer in the Python noosphere, and myself.

We were discussing how to advertize for Python, and Dinu
spread some of the recent library enhancements, like

- email package
- XML parsers
- distutils
- add lots of other great stuff, here.

Then, after a while of silence, Giorgio said something like
"""
Well, right.
But despite of the libraries, I was hit by pure Python,
by the following, simply by using it interactively:

There are these lists, these tuples, and these dicts.
They are immediately there, at my fingertips. And this is
a feeling that I never had, before. Especially these dicts
are incredible.

This was a feeling like 'getting rich overnight'.
"""

I loved this statement very much, and I have to say, this
is essentially my feeling for myself, since many years now.
I could imagine that this might be a candidate for next year's
Python congress' slogan. "Python makes you rich, overnight".
Not by money, in the first place, but by multiplying your
own capabilities, immediately.

It needed the fresh experience of a newcomer to become aware
of this, again.

The ambiguity is obvious. On first reading, it will attract
many. On second reading, those who are thinking "ahh, ohh, yes,
not I understand" will remain. But that's ok for a good slogan!

got rich overnight by Python!

being rich since 1800 nights now - sincerely -- chris

--
Christian Tismer :^) <(E-Mail Removed)>
Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
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dan
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      08-09-2003
Great post! Yes, I felt the same way when I first saw the language.
It's funny because I had a company and we bought a company, and they
said they were using Python as their scripting language, but we had to
close that division and I never really saw it.

Then much later, I had a project that needed something with a clear
syntax, more like english than C++. I fiddled with Python and fell in
love. I haven't felt this way since I learned Basic in 7th grade (I
know Basic sucks now, but then there was nothing else), or when I did
my first assembly programming, or fiddled with Lisp and Forth. I
never felt that way with C/C++, I have always felt like I was climbing
uphill.

When I first saw the indentation-critical, bracket-less syntax, it was
like "Oh my god, how many years have I wasted trying to see where the
braces correspond?"

Many years ago I had an idea for a similar syntax, but I never pursued
it. Now I don't have to, it is right there for me! This may sound
silly, but since using Python, I have felt this wierd sense of
liberation -- like my decision to become a programmer finally has
meaning. I work for 2 or 3 hours, and I have coded so much I have to
stop and think... With the typical strictly-typed langs popular in
the last 15 years, I never feel productive. I am at war with the
compiler, the linker, the libraries... it's a fight from beginning to
end.

I have many friends whose brains must be wired differently. They love
the feeling of control a tough compiler gives them... they believe the
compiler should do all the work for them. I am just different... I
have always loved dynamic languages. I just want a thing to be
whatever I want, and if I change my mind, I don't want to
*necessarily* have to make new prototypes, new header files.. I just
want to stick something else in that container, even though I never
thought I would, and I never warned anyone.

It's just -- well, it's freedom to code your own way. It's the
antidote to code rage.

Just my thoughts, late at night...

Keep up the good work!!

Christian Tismer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Dear friends.
>
> During a conversation with good friends and newly acquired
> Pythonista, we were discussing Python, what it is in essence,
> and what it is giving to us.
>
> The people were Dinu Gherman, Giorgio Giacomazzi,
> a promizing newcomer in the Python noosphere, and myself.
>
> We were discussing how to advertize for Python, and Dinu
> spread some of the recent library enhancements, like
>
> - email package
> - XML parsers
> - distutils
> - add lots of other great stuff, here.
>
> Then, after a while of silence, Giorgio said something like
> """
> Well, right.
> But despite of the libraries, I was hit by pure Python,
> by the following, simply by using it interactively:
>
> There are these lists, these tuples, and these dicts.
> They are immediately there, at my fingertips. And this is
> a feeling that I never had, before. Especially these dicts
> are incredible.
>
> This was a feeling like 'getting rich overnight'.
> """
>
> I loved this statement very much, and I have to say, this
> is essentially my feeling for myself, since many years now.
> I could imagine that this might be a candidate for next year's
> Python congress' slogan. "Python makes you rich, overnight".
> Not by money, in the first place, but by multiplying your
> own capabilities, immediately.
>
> It needed the fresh experience of a newcomer to become aware
> of this, again.
>
> The ambiguity is obvious. On first reading, it will attract
> many. On second reading, those who are thinking "ahh, ohh, yes,
> not I understand" will remain. But that's ok for a good slogan!
>
> got rich overnight by Python!
>
> being rich since 1800 nights now - sincerely -- chris

 
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Brandon J. Van Every
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      08-09-2003
Robert Kern wrote:
>
> While I certainly share that sentiment, I would advise caution in the
> phrasing of such a slogan: if I hadn't seen your name, I would have
> skipped your article as spam!


I read it for amusement value. Nothing in computers gets you rich
overnight, so I wanted to see how far the absurdity would go.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

 
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Christian Tismer
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      08-10-2003
Timo Virkkala wrote:

> Robert Kern wrote:

....

>> While I certainly share that sentiment, I would advise caution in the
>> phrasing
>> of such a slogan: if I hadn't seen your name, I would have skipped
>> your article
>> as spam!

>
> I _did_, the first time around.


Sure.
I think, this cannot work in emails subject lines.
If at all, then such a thing must be printed
on T-Shirts.

While sounding similar, but with a completely
different meaning,

"Getting rich comparisons overnight"

might not be caught by SPAM filters )

--
Christian Tismer :^) <(E-Mail Removed)>
Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
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Cliff Wells
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      08-10-2003
On Sun, 2003-08-10 at 14:56, Christian Tismer wrote:

> But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?
> If I remove the ambiguity, the slogan gets lame.
> Any ideas?


jkadf Getting Rich Overnight zxklaf

--
She licked her lips and turned to feather
-Bauhaus


 
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Ben Finney
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-10-2003
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:56:01 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
> But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?


The much greater battle is: if it passes electronic/programmatic
filters, how are you going to get it past the wetware filters -- i.e.,
the fact that it just sounds like spam when you hear it?

> If I remove the ambiguity, the slogan gets lame.


Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too many
negative connotations to sound un-lame.

> Any ideas?


Choose another slogan, forget the "get rich" nonsense. While the
sentiment is great, and I agree it's a wonderful feeling when you
realise how much your options have increased with little effort, the
"get rich overnight" just doesn't jibe with me.

The feeling isn't one of being (financially) rich; it's one of being
free from restrictions. Another thread recently mentioned the idea
that, opposed to other languages, Python lets you go home on time.
That's closer to the mark.

--
\ "If life deals you lemons, why not go kill someone with the |
`\ lemons (maybe by shoving them down his throat)." -- Jack Handey |
_o__) |
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Christian Tismer
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2003
Ben Finney wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:56:01 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
>
>>But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?

>
>
> The much greater battle is: if it passes electronic/programmatic
> filters, how are you going to get it past the wetware filters -- i.e.,
> the fact that it just sounds like spam when you hear it?


It does not sound like spam when you read it.
Getting you to read it is the trick.

>>If I remove the ambiguity, the slogan gets lame.

>
> Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too many
> negative connotations to sound un-lame.


Right. But is this my fault?

> Choose another slogan, forget the "get rich" nonsense. While the
> sentiment is great, and I agree it's a wonderful feeling when you
> realise how much your options have increased with little effort, the
> "get rich overnight" just doesn't jibe with me.


Yeah, true. The bare fact that "getting rich overnight" has
become something that we regard as spam:
Isn't that telling us a *very very* bad story?
The spammers *have* won, we are playing *their* games.
Can you see it?

> The feeling isn't one of being (financially) rich; it's one of being
> free from restrictions. Another thread recently mentioned the idea
> that, opposed to other languages, Python lets you go home on time.
> That's closer to the mark.


Fine. And you let spammers dictate to you what they want
you to think? I do think this is going way too far.
We have already allowed them to get too far.
Did I say anything bad? Nothing at all, this was said by
other people. And those are dictating to us, what to say
and what not to say.
SHould we really continue to support this?

I hereby simply propose to prohibit SPAM. Really, really
prohibiting it, with all legal consequences.

I do want to be able to say that I got rich overnight,
by using Python.

When *we* are unable to accept such a statement, because
*some* people are claiming this to be *their* spamming
vocabulary, whose fault is this, then?
I do believe this is *our* fault, because we allowed
this to happen, silently. Shame on US.

Shame on me as well, since I installed a SPAM filter,
instead of starting a real fight which they can't win.

cheers - chris

--
Christian Tismer :^) <(E-Mail Removed)>
Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/



 
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Brandon J. Van Every
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      08-11-2003
Christian Tismer wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too
>> many negative connotations to sound un-lame.

>
> Right. But is this my fault?


Yes, it's your fault. The language already exists, and you know it's out
there, so you are guilty of picking the extant lame words.

Are you guilty of inventing the lame words? No, of course not. But if you
say "**** you" to someone, does it matter who invented it?

> Fine. And you let spammers dictate to you what they want
> you to think?


Dude, "get rich overnight" was lame way before spammers. Face it, your
slogan only sounds good to the choir. Someone like me, who isn't converted
on Python yet, rightfully asks "How stupid do you think I am?"

> I do think this is going way too far.
> We have already allowed them to get too far.
> Did I say anything bad? Nothing at all, this was said by
> other people. And those are dictating to us, what to say
> and what not to say.
> SHould we really continue to support this?


Get over it. Go back to the drawing board, design another slogan. You test
marketed your slogan, it failed. That's life. It doesn't take that much
time and energy to come up with other slogans. Heck, given enough
iterations, maybe you'll find a new career in marketing. Marketing is
actually pretty important to the success of software, so you could even
stick to high tech marketing.

> I hereby simply propose to prohibit SPAM. Really, really
> prohibiting it, with all legal consequences.


We couldn't even get the UN to prohibit WMDs in a timely, accountable
fashion. 12 years of Saddam's stonewalling, followed by a French suggestion
that we should do 12..18 months more of it, despite the obvious
implacability of the dictator. Suggest you look to illegal consequences,
because legal ones can't do anything. The problem with illegal consequences
in anti-SPAM arenas is the tend to only do collateral damage, not hit the
perps.

> I do want to be able to say that I got rich overnight, by using Python.


Generally speaking, that's a Testimonial.

> When *we* are unable to accept such a statement, because
> *some* people are claiming this to be *their* spamming
> vocabulary, whose fault is this, then?


Yours. You are way too idealistic, worrying about langauge ownership issues
that are completely beyond your control. Your idealism is your own fault.
Pragmatists simply observe "this won't work" and move on with something that
will.

> Shame on me as well, since I installed a SPAM filter,
> instead of starting a real fight which they can't win.


Your idealism also inhibits your ability to make a realistic analysis on
this point.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

 
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Raymond A. St. Marie
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2003
Christian Tismer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:56:01 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
> >
> >>But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?

> >
> >
> > The much greater battle is: if it passes electronic/programmatic
> > filters, how are you going to get it past the wetware filters -- i.e.,
> > the fact that it just sounds like spam when you hear it?

>
> It does not sound like spam when you read it.
> Getting you to read it is the trick.
>


Hey, Christian,

How about...

P rograms
Y ou
T hink-up
H appen
O ver
N ight

From some thoughts I was having along
the lines of...

P rogram (-ming? | -s? [ending sounds like mind contol])
Y our
T houghts (thinking)
H appen-ing (-s?) (handleing objects [naturally | natively])
O bjectivley
N ow

I nterpret (-ed | -er) (Indented? [this is implied])
S tyle (scripts)
T hat
A ll ({anyone sees}|{accomodates seeing})
S ee

Ray St. Marie
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
 
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Brandon J. Van Every
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2003
Raymond A. St. Marie wrote:
>
> How about...
>
> P rograms
> Y ou
> T hink-up
> H appen
> O ver
> N ight


[Faced with Programmer Marketing, a person runs screaming from the
newsgroup.]

Please You're Trying Hard Over Nothing


--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

 
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