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Oh how often this subject may come up...

The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)

I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
However, I cannot decide on which to choose.

I've read descriptions and comments on
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming to get other's
opinions. The user comments are sparse though, so I've decided to ask here.

I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
(MaxM don't answer "Plone"...

mod_python seems the choice, if I want the feature of retaining scripts in
memory between requests and want to write my own managemen interface. I
don't know, if it allows for application variables (variables shared
globally between sessions).

pso looks like the framework that is easiest to deploy. If run under
mod_python, it also retains scripts in memory, but does it allow for the
aforementioned application variables? And does the performance match up
compared to mod_python and Zope?

It'll probably be run behind an Apache httpd server, so I guess Twisted is
out of the question.

What is your preferred framework? And why?

To those who would ask "What do you want to do with it", the answer is:
General purpose web application development. Porting (enhancing) of my
existing CMS (built in PHP - it's badly in need of a rewrite, so the time is
right for changing to Python).

I am to start on a new web project in the beginning of next week, and I
would like to use this opportunity to make the switch from PHP to Python.
Which is why I ask and don't just spend 2+ more weeks to dig further into
the above mentioned frameworks before making the decision.

- Carsten

Carsten Gehling wrote:

> Oh how often this subject may come up...
>
> The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)

Where do you want to store your data? [relational database, text files,
ZODB, Berkley DB, pickles, ...]

If you don't need ZODB (object database), I would not use Zope.

I would use quixote.

thomas

Thomas Güttler wrote:
>
> Carsten Gehling wrote:
>
> > Oh how often this subject may come up...
> >
> > The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> > possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> > Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> > webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
>
> Where do you want to store your data? [relational database, text files,
> ZODB, Berkley DB, pickles, ...]
>
> If you don't need ZODB (object database), I would not use Zope.

Even if you want ZODB, you can always use the standalone one, and still
skip Zope, if that's what you want.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:54:16 +0200, Carsten Gehling paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> Oh how often this subject may come up...
>
> The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
>
> I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
> application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
> However, I cannot decide on which to choose.

I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.

You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
look.

Cheers
David

David McNab wrote:
>
> I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
> posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.
>
> You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
> look.


David, I had to post instead of reply, since you of course have
hidden your email address. I hope you get this.

You are using the refuse.com domain for your fake address. This
is very inappropriate, as that is a real domain for a real company.

Please switch to the proper approach: append ".invalid" to your
address. This is the *defined* way to form a domain name which
is guaranteed to be invalid.

-Peter

Carsten Gehling wrote:


> I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
> feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
> other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
> interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
> enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
> (MaxM don't answer "Plone"...


Have you thought about running Python under .asp ?? I have made a few
medium sized projects that way, and after aligning my methods to using
Python in combination with .asp it was quite good.

Another thing. If you find Plone to be too specific, you could just
plain cmf.

But it is quite easy to rewrite the interface of a Zope product.

Even though Zope and especially Plone are hard to get into they buy you
a lot of leverage. And you are competing with people who do know Zope/Plone.


regards Max M

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:35:00 -0400, Peter Hansen paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> You are using the refuse.com domain for your fake address. This
> is very inappropriate, as that is a real domain for a real company.

OK - thx for pointing this out to me.

I've changed my posted email address to something I consider far more
appropriate.

Cheers

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:54:16 +0200, Carsten Gehling paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> Oh how often this subject may come up...
>
> The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
>
> I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
> application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
> However, I cannot decide on which to choose.

I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.

You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
look.

Cheers
David


> I've read descriptions and comments on
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming to get other's
> opinions. The user comments are sparse though, so I've decided to ask here.
>
> I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
> feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
> other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
> interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
> enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
> (MaxM don't answer "Plone"...
>
> mod_python seems the choice, if I want the feature of retaining scripts in
> memory between requests and want to write my own managemen interface. I
> don't know, if it allows for application variables (variables shared
> globally between sessions).
>
> pso looks like the framework that is easiest to deploy. If run under
> mod_python, it also retains scripts in memory, but does it allow for the
> aforementioned application variables? And does the performance match up
> compared to mod_python and Zope?
>
> It'll probably be run behind an Apache httpd server, so I guess Twisted is
> out of the question.
>
> What is your preferred framework? And why?
>
> To those who would ask "What do you want to do with it", the answer is:
> General purpose web application development. Porting (enhancing) of my
> existing CMS (built in PHP - it's badly in need of a rewrite, so the time is
> right for changing to Python).
>
> I am to start on a new web project in the beginning of next week, and I
> would like to use this opportunity to make the switch from PHP to Python.
> Which is why I ask and don't just spend 2+ more weeks to dig further into
> the above mentioned frameworks before making the decision.
>
> - Carsten

David McNab schrieb:
> I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
> posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.

looks good. But the online documentation links are broken.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

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David McNab <> writes:

> I've changed my posted email address to something I consider far more
> appropriate.

I don't think riaa has a user 'plenty_of_messages'... Why not try
something like or ?

--
Ville Vainio http://www.students.tut.fi/~vainio24