Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Computer Information > New HD help needed please

Reply
Thread Tools

New HD help needed please

 
 
Payne747
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2004
Ross Durie wrote:
> 1. Western Digital drives have a master(+ slave), slave and single disk(+ no
> slave) jumper setting.
>
> 2. EZBios can be dowloaded from WD to configure the drive under a non
> supported BIOS it won't then allow booting from the CDROM drive in install
> recovery.
>
> 3. Recovery CDs only install to partitioned and formatted drives.
>
> You may need a HDD that can be jumpered to 32 GB, e.g., Samsung.
>
> --
> Ross
> "dfrog" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>Trying to help a friend with IBM PC - Win 98ME - AMD 600 - 32mb ram - to

>
> fit
>
>>a new hard drive.
>>his other one had developed lots of currupted areas, and we were advised

>
> to
>
>>fit a new hard drive
>>New hard drive is WD 40GB (identified by BIOS on primary ide master)
>>From IBM Recovery Disk I chose 'Format and reload original system'
>>'Recovery Proceedure' flashes briefly on screen, then very quickly

>
> vanishes
>
>>followed by ' Computer will now restart' as part of process.
>>This proceedure then continues to loop.
>>
>>Then tried a Win ME bootup floppy which reports 'No FAT or FAT32

>
> partition'
>
>>use FDISK at prompt to format.
>>This reports 'No drive installed'
>>
>>Within the Diagnostics feature of the IBM recovery disc, the WD 40Gb hard
>>drive is identified, but there is also a 'Not installed' report alongside
>>'Fixed disks'?
>>
>>Have connected an old 2GB hard drive with Win 98 OS to the same Ide cable
>>and this boots up OK, which makes me think there is not a problem anywhere
>>else.
>>
>>There is probably a simple part of the proceedure which I am missing and I
>>would really appreciate any help you can offer.
>>
>>dfrog
>>
>>
>>

>
>
>


Another messy way round it (after making sure your BIOS is updated) is
to prepare the disk in another machine with Windows XP or 2000, simply
connect it up as slave and then use Window's Disk management tools
(Right click My Computer->Manage, Disk Management) to format the
partition as FAT32.

The new disk will then have a clean partition and correctly formatted,
getting round the FDISK problem. Other then that, Keith is most likely
correct in that the machine most likely does not support large disks.

Have you need enabling large disk support when FDISK first loads? It
should detect a large disk and ask if you want to enable support for it,
if you are saying 'no' here, the disk will not be detected.

--
Payne747
http://www-the-serpent.co.uk

Change 200 to 747 to reply to email.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
dfrog
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2004

"Payne747" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cj6ame$6uq$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Ross Durie wrote:
>> 1. Western Digital drives have a master(+ slave), slave and single disk(+
>> no
>> slave) jumper setting.
>>
>> 2. EZBios can be dowloaded from WD to configure the drive under a non
>> supported BIOS it won't then allow booting from the CDROM drive in
>> install
>> recovery.
>>
>> 3. Recovery CDs only install to partitioned and formatted drives.
>>
>> You may need a HDD that can be jumpered to 32 GB, e.g., Samsung.
>>
>> --
>> Ross
>> "dfrog" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>Trying to help a friend with IBM PC - Win 98ME - AMD 600 - 32mb ram - to

>>
>> fit
>>
>>>a new hard drive.
>>>his other one had developed lots of currupted areas, and we were advised

>>
>> to
>>
>>>fit a new hard drive
>>>New hard drive is WD 40GB (identified by BIOS on primary ide master)
>>>From IBM Recovery Disk I chose 'Format and reload original system'
>>>'Recovery Proceedure' flashes briefly on screen, then very quickly

>>
>> vanishes
>>
>>>followed by ' Computer will now restart' as part of process.
>>>This proceedure then continues to loop.
>>>
>>>Then tried a Win ME bootup floppy which reports 'No FAT or FAT32

>>
>> partition'
>>
>>>use FDISK at prompt to format.
>>>This reports 'No drive installed'
>>>
>>>Within the Diagnostics feature of the IBM recovery disc, the WD 40Gb hard
>>>drive is identified, but there is also a 'Not installed' report alongside
>>>'Fixed disks'?
>>>
>>>Have connected an old 2GB hard drive with Win 98 OS to the same Ide cable
>>>and this boots up OK, which makes me think there is not a problem
>>>anywhere
>>>else.
>>>
>>>There is probably a simple part of the proceedure which I am missing and
>>>I
>>>would really appreciate any help you can offer.
>>>
>>>dfrog
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>

>
> Another messy way round it (after making sure your BIOS is updated) is to
> prepare the disk in another machine with Windows XP or 2000, simply
> connect it up as slave and then use Window's Disk management tools (Right
> click My Computer->Manage, Disk Management) to format the partition as
> FAT32.
>
> The new disk will then have a clean partition and correctly formatted,
> getting round the FDISK problem. Other then that, Keith is most likely
> correct in that the machine most likely does not support large disks.
>
> Have you need enabling large disk support when FDISK first loads? It
> should detect a large disk and ask if you want to enable support for it,
> if you are saying 'no' here, the disk will not be detected.
>
> --
> Payne747
> http://www-the-serpent.co.uk
>
> Change 200 to 747 to reply to email.


Payne747
Thanks for your continued help.
I've got to the stage now where my head hurts!
This is what I've done today:-
I DID have a jumper problem. I found conflicting positions for jumper on
drive itself and from Western Digital website, so I changed to website
advice for the WD400BB hard drive.
I downloaded Data Life Gaurd from WD site on my machine and used it (floppy)
to format and partition the new hard drive. Drive is now shown and shown as
installed.
I set BIOS to boot from CD first and put IBM Recovery Disk1 in & powered up.
Went for a Full Recovery - Easy Restore (??)
Got an Error # 91 - Disk Mgr has been detected on Drive 0 but Disk Mgr not
running. If you are booting from a floppy remove and reboot, press and hold
Spacebar as computer restarts. When prompted insert your boot floppy and
continue booting.
Tried this 'hold spacebar' and it didn't work.
Got back to same stage again and hit OK which took me into Product Recovery.
I then got an error# 1826 - Error : free space not found
Hit OK and recovery continued.
Computer rebooted and than asked for IBM recovery disk2. Lots of files were
unzipped, request to remove floppy and Cd and press Enter to restart.
Only to be asked then for Recovery Disk1 and for it to go into the full
recovery process again.
I've tried every configuration in BIOS for Start up sequence, and without
the Win ME boot floppy in get 'No OS can be found', with the boot floppy in
I get to a Dos prompt A:\ , and no matter what I enter here (CD ROM:\ setup
or setup.exe or oemsetup........or C:\ setup or setup.exe or oemsetup......I
just get 'Bad Command'
At the dos prompt, a 'C:\dir' shows an IBM folder, a couple of other
folders and a WIN DIR
I really really hope that you or someone else can help

dfrog


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Robert Baer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2004
dfrog wrote:
>
> "Payne747" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:cj6ame$6uq$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Ross Durie wrote:
> >> 1. Western Digital drives have a master(+ slave), slave and single disk(+
> >> no
> >> slave) jumper setting.
> >>
> >> 2. EZBios can be dowloaded from WD to configure the drive under a non
> >> supported BIOS it won't then allow booting from the CDROM drive in
> >> install
> >> recovery.
> >>
> >> 3. Recovery CDs only install to partitioned and formatted drives.
> >>
> >> You may need a HDD that can be jumpered to 32 GB, e.g., Samsung.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ross
> >> "dfrog" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>
> >>>Trying to help a friend with IBM PC - Win 98ME - AMD 600 - 32mb ram - to
> >>
> >> fit
> >>
> >>>a new hard drive.
> >>>his other one had developed lots of currupted areas, and we were advised
> >>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>fit a new hard drive
> >>>New hard drive is WD 40GB (identified by BIOS on primary ide master)
> >>>From IBM Recovery Disk I chose 'Format and reload original system'
> >>>'Recovery Proceedure' flashes briefly on screen, then very quickly
> >>
> >> vanishes
> >>
> >>>followed by ' Computer will now restart' as part of process.
> >>>This proceedure then continues to loop.
> >>>
> >>>Then tried a Win ME bootup floppy which reports 'No FAT or FAT32
> >>
> >> partition'
> >>
> >>>use FDISK at prompt to format.
> >>>This reports 'No drive installed'
> >>>
> >>>Within the Diagnostics feature of the IBM recovery disc, the WD 40Gb hard
> >>>drive is identified, but there is also a 'Not installed' report alongside
> >>>'Fixed disks'?
> >>>
> >>>Have connected an old 2GB hard drive with Win 98 OS to the same Ide cable
> >>>and this boots up OK, which makes me think there is not a problem
> >>>anywhere
> >>>else.
> >>>
> >>>There is probably a simple part of the proceedure which I am missing and
> >>>I
> >>>would really appreciate any help you can offer.
> >>>
> >>>dfrog
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>

> >
> > Another messy way round it (after making sure your BIOS is updated) is to
> > prepare the disk in another machine with Windows XP or 2000, simply
> > connect it up as slave and then use Window's Disk management tools (Right
> > click My Computer->Manage, Disk Management) to format the partition as
> > FAT32.
> >
> > The new disk will then have a clean partition and correctly formatted,
> > getting round the FDISK problem. Other then that, Keith is most likely
> > correct in that the machine most likely does not support large disks.
> >
> > Have you need enabling large disk support when FDISK first loads? It
> > should detect a large disk and ask if you want to enable support for it,
> > if you are saying 'no' here, the disk will not be detected.
> >
> > --
> > Payne747
> > http://www-the-serpent.co.uk
> >
> > Change 200 to 747 to reply to email.

>
> Payne747
> Thanks for your continued help.
> I've got to the stage now where my head hurts!
> This is what I've done today:-
> I DID have a jumper problem. I found conflicting positions for jumper on
> drive itself and from Western Digital website, so I changed to website
> advice for the WD400BB hard drive.
> I downloaded Data Life Gaurd from WD site on my machine and used it (floppy)
> to format and partition the new hard drive. Drive is now shown and shown as
> installed.
> I set BIOS to boot from CD first and put IBM Recovery Disk1 in & powered up.
> Went for a Full Recovery - Easy Restore (??)
> Got an Error # 91 - Disk Mgr has been detected on Drive 0 but Disk Mgr not
> running. If you are booting from a floppy remove and reboot, press and hold
> Spacebar as computer restarts. When prompted insert your boot floppy and
> continue booting.
> Tried this 'hold spacebar' and it didn't work.
> Got back to same stage again and hit OK which took me into Product Recovery.
> I then got an error# 1826 - Error : free space not found
> Hit OK and recovery continued.
> Computer rebooted and than asked for IBM recovery disk2. Lots of files were
> unzipped, request to remove floppy and Cd and press Enter to restart.
> Only to be asked then for Recovery Disk1 and for it to go into the full
> recovery process again.
> I've tried every configuration in BIOS for Start up sequence, and without
> the Win ME boot floppy in get 'No OS can be found', with the boot floppy in
> I get to a Dos prompt A:\ , and no matter what I enter here (CD ROM:\ setup
> or setup.exe or oemsetup........or C:\ setup or setup.exe or oemsetup......I
> just get 'Bad Command'
> At the dos prompt, a 'C:\dir' shows an IBM folder, a couple of other
> folders and a WIN DIR
> I really really hope that you or someone else can help
>
> dfrog


One of the things that you did that creates problems, is to use HD
software provided by the HD maker as well as using *any* so-called
recovery system.

You *might* be able to recover by using FDISK to remove all drives and
partitions from that HD.
Make sure it is the only HD in the system as Primary Master and
jumpered accordingly (Master only).
Then set the BIOS to boot from CD, and using your WinME CD, boot and
start installation.
If all is OK, WinME will ask about formatting and partition type; as
previously mentioned, select FAT32.
Be advised, that when it re-boots, *quickly* go into the BIOS and
re-set for Floppy #1, HD #2 and no others; quit & save BIOS settings,
and then let it boot the second time.
Also pay attentionto the messages; at some point it will say to remove
the CD (if you do not, it will loop and re-do from the second part of
the install procedure).

IF use of FDISK does not help, you must completely wipe the hard drive
and start from scratch ("..the only HD in the system as Primary
Master..").
 
Reply With Quote
 
dfrog
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2004

"Robert Baer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> dfrog wrote:
>>
>> "Payne747" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:cj6ame$6uq$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Ross Durie wrote:
>> >> 1. Western Digital drives have a master(+ slave), slave and single
>> >> disk(+
>> >> no
>> >> slave) jumper setting.
>> >>
>> >> 2. EZBios can be dowloaded from WD to configure the drive under a non
>> >> supported BIOS it won't then allow booting from the CDROM drive in
>> >> install
>> >> recovery.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Recovery CDs only install to partitioned and formatted drives.
>> >>
>> >> You may need a HDD that can be jumpered to 32 GB, e.g., Samsung.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ross
>> >> "dfrog" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >>
>> >>>Trying to help a friend with IBM PC - Win 98ME - AMD 600 - 32mb ram -
>> >>>to
>> >>
>> >> fit
>> >>
>> >>>a new hard drive.
>> >>>his other one had developed lots of currupted areas, and we were
>> >>>advised
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>fit a new hard drive
>> >>>New hard drive is WD 40GB (identified by BIOS on primary ide master)
>> >>>From IBM Recovery Disk I chose 'Format and reload original system'
>> >>>'Recovery Proceedure' flashes briefly on screen, then very quickly
>> >>
>> >> vanishes
>> >>
>> >>>followed by ' Computer will now restart' as part of process.
>> >>>This proceedure then continues to loop.
>> >>>
>> >>>Then tried a Win ME bootup floppy which reports 'No FAT or FAT32
>> >>
>> >> partition'
>> >>
>> >>>use FDISK at prompt to format.
>> >>>This reports 'No drive installed'
>> >>>
>> >>>Within the Diagnostics feature of the IBM recovery disc, the WD 40Gb
>> >>>hard
>> >>>drive is identified, but there is also a 'Not installed' report
>> >>>alongside
>> >>>'Fixed disks'?
>> >>>
>> >>>Have connected an old 2GB hard drive with Win 98 OS to the same Ide
>> >>>cable
>> >>>and this boots up OK, which makes me think there is not a problem
>> >>>anywhere
>> >>>else.
>> >>>
>> >>>There is probably a simple part of the proceedure which I am missing
>> >>>and
>> >>>I
>> >>>would really appreciate any help you can offer.
>> >>>
>> >>>dfrog
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Another messy way round it (after making sure your BIOS is updated) is
>> > to
>> > prepare the disk in another machine with Windows XP or 2000, simply
>> > connect it up as slave and then use Window's Disk management tools
>> > (Right
>> > click My Computer->Manage, Disk Management) to format the partition as
>> > FAT32.
>> >
>> > The new disk will then have a clean partition and correctly formatted,
>> > getting round the FDISK problem. Other then that, Keith is most likely
>> > correct in that the machine most likely does not support large disks.
>> >
>> > Have you need enabling large disk support when FDISK first loads? It
>> > should detect a large disk and ask if you want to enable support for
>> > it,
>> > if you are saying 'no' here, the disk will not be detected.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Payne747
>> > http://www-the-serpent.co.uk
>> >
>> > Change 200 to 747 to reply to email.

>>
>> Payne747
>> Thanks for your continued help.
>> I've got to the stage now where my head hurts!
>> This is what I've done today:-
>> I DID have a jumper problem. I found conflicting positions for jumper on
>> drive itself and from Western Digital website, so I changed to website
>> advice for the WD400BB hard drive.
>> I downloaded Data Life Gaurd from WD site on my machine and used it
>> (floppy)
>> to format and partition the new hard drive. Drive is now shown and shown
>> as
>> installed.
>> I set BIOS to boot from CD first and put IBM Recovery Disk1 in & powered
>> up.
>> Went for a Full Recovery - Easy Restore (??)
>> Got an Error # 91 - Disk Mgr has been detected on Drive 0 but Disk Mgr
>> not
>> running. If you are booting from a floppy remove and reboot, press and
>> hold
>> Spacebar as computer restarts. When prompted insert your boot floppy and
>> continue booting.
>> Tried this 'hold spacebar' and it didn't work.
>> Got back to same stage again and hit OK which took me into Product
>> Recovery.
>> I then got an error# 1826 - Error : free space not found
>> Hit OK and recovery continued.
>> Computer rebooted and than asked for IBM recovery disk2. Lots of files
>> were
>> unzipped, request to remove floppy and Cd and press Enter to restart.
>> Only to be asked then for Recovery Disk1 and for it to go into the full
>> recovery process again.
>> I've tried every configuration in BIOS for Start up sequence, and without
>> the Win ME boot floppy in get 'No OS can be found', with the boot floppy
>> in
>> I get to a Dos prompt A:\ , and no matter what I enter here (CD ROM:\
>> setup
>> or setup.exe or oemsetup........or C:\ setup or setup.exe or
>> oemsetup......I
>> just get 'Bad Command'
>> At the dos prompt, a 'C:\dir' shows an IBM folder, a couple of other
>> folders and a WIN DIR
>> I really really hope that you or someone else can help
>>
>> dfrog

>
> One of the things that you did that creates problems, is to use HD
> software provided by the HD maker as well as using *any* so-called
> recovery system.
>
> You *might* be able to recover by using FDISK to remove all drives and
> partitions from that HD.
> Make sure it is the only HD in the system as Primary Master and
> jumpered accordingly (Master only).
> Then set the BIOS to boot from CD, and using your WinME CD, boot and
> start installation.
> If all is OK, WinME will ask about formatting and partition type; as
> previously mentioned, select FAT32.
> Be advised, that when it re-boots, *quickly* go into the BIOS and
> re-set for Floppy #1, HD #2 and no others; quit & save BIOS settings,
> and then let it boot the second time.
> Also pay attentionto the messages; at some point it will say to remove
> the CD (if you do not, it will loop and re-do from the second part of
> the install procedure).
>
> IF use of FDISK does not help, you must completely wipe the hard drive
> and start from scratch ("..the only HD in the system as Primary
> Master..").


Thanks Robert,
I'll go with your advice tomorrow when I can get at the machine again. Your
*any* so called recovery recovery system comment makes me think you're not
overjoyed by such. The only Win ME there is, is on IBM's recovery CDs so I'm
limited by that.
Thanks agian

dfrog



 
Reply With Quote
 
Robert Baer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-27-2004
------------ SNIPped for brevity -----
>
> Thanks Robert,
> I'll go with your advice tomorrow when I can get at the machine again. Your
> *any* so called recovery recovery system comment makes me think you're not
> overjoyed by such. The only Win ME there is, is on IBM's recovery CDs so I'm
> limited by that.
> Thanks agian
>
> dfrog


Do you mean that if you boot from that CD, you do not get options
something like to "boot to DOS with CD support", "boot to DOS without CD
support" and something like "boot to install"??
And then using that third mentioned option (actual order may be
different), WinME is not installed?
Perhaps I should send you a "pure" WinME CD..
 
Reply With Quote
 
dfrog
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-27-2004

"Robert Baer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> ------------ SNIPped for brevity -----
>>
>> Thanks Robert,
>> I'll go with your advice tomorrow when I can get at the machine again.
>> Your
>> *any* so called recovery recovery system comment makes me think you're
>> not
>> overjoyed by such. The only Win ME there is, is on IBM's recovery CDs so
>> I'm
>> limited by that.
>> Thanks agian
>>
>> dfrog

>
> Do you mean that if you boot from that CD, you do not get options
> something like to "boot to DOS with CD support", "boot to DOS without CD
> support" and something like "boot to install"??
> And then using that third mentioned option (actual order may be
> different), WinME is not installed?
> Perhaps I should send you a "pure" WinME CD..


Robert,

sent you mail

dfrog


 
Reply With Quote
 
Robert Baer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-28-2004
dfrog wrote:
>
> "Robert Baer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > ------------ SNIPped for brevity -----
> >>
> >> Thanks Robert,
> >> I'll go with your advice tomorrow when I can get at the machine again.
> >> Your
> >> *any* so called recovery recovery system comment makes me think you're
> >> not
> >> overjoyed by such. The only Win ME there is, is on IBM's recovery CDs so
> >> I'm
> >> limited by that.
> >> Thanks agian
> >>
> >> dfrog

> >
> > Do you mean that if you boot from that CD, you do not get options
> > something like to "boot to DOS with CD support", "boot to DOS without CD
> > support" and something like "boot to install"??
> > And then using that third mentioned option (actual order may be
> > different), WinME is not installed?
> > Perhaps I should send you a "pure" WinME CD..

>
> Robert,
>
> sent you mail
>
> dfrog


I may have missed it; earthlink traps a lot of messages as spam.
Please try again either at robertbaerATearthlinkDOTnet or
bobbaerATearthlinkDOTnet or both, making the obvious symbol
replacements.
Also use "New HD help needed" for the subject line; that may help as
well.
 
Reply With Quote
 
dfrog
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-28-2004

"Robert Baer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> dfrog wrote:
>>
>> "Robert Baer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > ------------ SNIPped for brevity -----
>> >>
>> >> Thanks Robert,
>> >> I'll go with your advice tomorrow when I can get at the machine again.
>> >> Your
>> >> *any* so called recovery recovery system comment makes me think you're
>> >> not
>> >> overjoyed by such. The only Win ME there is, is on IBM's recovery CDs
>> >> so
>> >> I'm
>> >> limited by that.
>> >> Thanks agian
>> >>
>> >> dfrog
>> >
>> > Do you mean that if you boot from that CD, you do not get options
>> > something like to "boot to DOS with CD support", "boot to DOS without
>> > CD
>> > support" and something like "boot to install"??
>> > And then using that third mentioned option (actual order may be
>> > different), WinME is not installed?
>> > Perhaps I should send you a "pure" WinME CD..

>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> sent you mail
>>
>> dfrog

>
> I may have missed it; earthlink traps a lot of messages as spam.
> Please try again either at robertbaerATearthlinkDOTnet or
> bobbaerATearthlinkDOTnet or both, making the obvious symbol
> replacements.
> Also use "New HD help needed" for the subject line; that may help as
> well.


Robert,
sent email to 'bob' at 10.13 am GMT

regards
dfrog


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Help Help Pentax S5i Help needed (Please) The Martian Digital Photography 14 06-20-2008 07:56 AM
Help Help Help Please Pentax S5i info needed The Martian Digital Photography 2 05-20-2008 07:00 AM
Help needed on this 857W config. Repost to be clearer what the problemsare and the help needed sparticle Cisco 3 08-30-2007 07:47 PM
HELP! HELP! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tpg comcntr Computer Support 11 02-15-2004 06:22 PM
please help... ...me learn C++ please please please :) KK C++ 2 10-14-2003 02:08 PM



Advertisments