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Want a better browser?

 
 
Mr. Majestik
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      11-15-2003
I've DL and used 20 over the last few days. This one was an accidental find.
Do yourself a favor and find it for yourself.

Avant.

MM<--not kidding


 
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DeMoN LaG
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      11-15-2003
"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com:

> I've DL and used 20 over the last few days. This one was an accidental
> find. Do yourself a favor and find it for yourself.
>
> Avant.
>


That would be well and good, but Avant is not a browser. It is merely an
extension of Internet Explorer (a shell, if you will). Let's see the
features:

Flash Filter (available in Mozilla Firebird)
Built in Pop Up Stopper (Available and on by default in Firebird)
Mouse functions (middle click opens new tab, mouse gestures available with
an extension in Firebird)
Multi-window browsing (available in every browser, unless you mean MDI, in
which case Opera has it beat)
Built in Google Search (Available in Firebird)
Records cleaner (Available in Firebird)
IE Compat (I'd really rather not have a security hole like ActiveX around)
Skins (Available in Firebird)

Basically, if you are currently using IE, you may like the new shell. If
you currently use Firebird, this would be a complete waste of a download.

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Mr. Majestik
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      11-15-2003

DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message news:Xns94341CB86E5A3Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
> Basically, if you are currently using IE, you may like the new shell. If
> you currently use Firebird, this would be a complete waste of a download.
>


Basically, Demon, you're correct. And since I have respected your opinion
for some time ( I usually post under MM^^), I've TRIED, AND TRIED to get
used to Firebird. I mean, I've DL and installed it, and Mozilla for months,
and can't seem to like it one damn bit

Now, I HATE to use a M$ product. Which is the reason I've been trying out
all the rest........I mean *every single one*!

Yes, it's a shell using the MS engine. But it works SO fine, like Opera
*used* to work. It's intuitive, it takes the hassle out of surfing,
and............I'm used to the familiar interface. If it had a stand alone
engine, I'd BUY the thing, something I wouldn't do for Opera or any other
right now. Can I (not me, I mean "can one?") make Firebird act like this? In
any case, with all your time in the comp seat, it may seem simple to *you*.
Not me, I'm getting too long in the teeth...........

MM


 
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DeMoN LaG
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      11-15-2003
"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:vrbns11b3mgu65
@corp.supernews.com:

> Can I (not me, I mean "can one?") make Firebird act like this?


I fail to see why you could not set firebird up as I stated. My girlfriend
managed to do this by herself, and she is far from a geek. She required my
assistance to set up a USB CD burner which was basically:
Plug burner in
Put CD in drive
Click "Next" and "Finish" and stuff

My working theory is if she can set it up, anyone can. I also consider it
a testimonial to the program with her. She ran into some problem (someone
else on the machine accidently or purposely removed some files it needed),
which meant she couldn't use firebird until I had to go and look at why it
would open, and immediately exit. I said "You can still use Internet
Explorer until I get home" and she said "No, I'll just wait, it isn't worth
the hassle without Firebird."

I may like it because it isn't IE, and it's designed to do things "The
right way" and not the "Microsoft way", and stuff, but she doesn't give a
rat's butt about any of that and just thinks it is a more enjoyable web
surfing experience.

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Mr. Majestik
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      11-15-2003

DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message news:Xns9434265C230CBWobbly@216.168.3.30...
> I fail to see why you could not set firebird up as I stated. My

girlfriend
> managed to do this by herself, and she is far from a geek


Nice one.............However, and here's the deal for anyone that works on
Firebird.............

Sure, I got the setting to work fine. After all, after about 100 re-installs
lately, I've got the experience.........I didn't DL the plug-ins, however,
and the standard skin was fine.

The *problem*, for me, and for those like me, is that it's not worth the
trouble to re-learn all the methodology to do stuff that *should* be
intuitive. Maybe MS uses a better Q group (a crowd that rates various stuff
for mfg's). Or maybe I've just learned the MS way due to simple repitition.
But, I think not. I LIKED, and used the old Opera for a long time. It too
was a great browser. (till they killed it with bloat).

What I'm saying it this: "From the install, using Mozilla <or Firebird> is
counter-intuitive. It's a pain to use. I can't see under the hood and don't
care much. Sure, I'd LIKE to not use M$, like I'd like not to drive a Ford.
But I'm driving a Ford if walking is the alternative.

MM


 
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Mr. Majestik
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      11-15-2003
I couldn't help myself..........I was thinking about this and decided to
post to my own post

An analogy:

I used to build race car engines. I did nice work. I always used the best
parts, the best machine work, the best assembly. For example, I'd spend $13
more for chrome moly rings, because they would seat faster and last longer.
I would spec new rod connecting bolts, better quality, never stretch and
cause a blown engine. The drivers (buyers) couldn't care less. They only
cared about how fast they could go, and how much money it cost. *I'd* only
buy my own stuff, (if it were me buying), but most didn't care much. I
learned a lot about marketing...........

The point is this. I've come to believe that Mozilla, Firebird, T-bird, and
even Linux is built BY geeks FOR geeks. Sure, it's nice to know the stuff
inside, but the majority will never know, or care......You want people to
embrace Firebird? Mozilla? Linux? Then take my feedback for what it is:
Valuable currency. You can't shop for it, you can't buy it much. Your
*perspective* is wrong.

Take my previous post. I told you *why* I liked the new *skin* or browser
and why. I told you why I didn't care much for Firebird........IF the
builders of this (better under the hood) browser would emulate the one I
like, and do some research, I guess they would find out:

Users want an intuitive browser. They want one they can relate to.
They do NOT want to have to tinker under the hood to make it work. (forget
DL plug in's, tinkering and all that)
They have other things to think about. They don't care how *great* it is.
ASSEMBLE a product that does all the heavy lifting. Make it easy to add-on
extras. Make a no-brainer product.
Get some feedback from other class objects. You know, the ones that aren't
geeks. THIS is your market.
If you build only for geeks, then these will be your only customers. It's
too small a base to work.

Anyway, just some thoughts for wanna-be programmers



 
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Roy@home.net
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      11-15-2003
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:12:28 GMT, "Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I couldn't help myself..........I was thinking about this and decided to
>post to my own post


Hey, I finally had to kill file myself

Roy - Carpe Noctem
 
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Oldus Fartus
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2003
In news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com,
Mr. Majestik <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote these words:

| I couldn't help myself..........I was thinking about this and decided
| to post to my own post
|
| An analogy:
|
| I used to build race car engines. I did nice work. I always used the
| best parts, the best machine work, the best assembly. For example,
| I'd spend $13 more for chrome moly rings, because they would seat
| faster and last longer. I would spec new rod connecting bolts, better
| quality, never stretch and cause a blown engine. The drivers (buyers)
| couldn't care less. They only cared about how fast they could go, and
| how much money it cost. *I'd* only buy my own stuff, (if it were me
| buying), but most didn't care much. I learned a lot about
| marketing...........
|
| The point is this. I've come to believe that Mozilla, Firebird,
| T-bird, and even Linux is built BY geeks FOR geeks. Sure, it's nice
| to know the stuff inside, but the majority will never know, or
| care......You want people to embrace Firebird? Mozilla? Linux? Then
| take my feedback for what it is: Valuable currency. You can't shop
| for it, you can't buy it much. Your
| *perspective* is wrong.
|
| Take my previous post. I told you *why* I liked the new *skin* or
| browser and why. I told you why I didn't care much for
| Firebird........IF the builders of this (better under the hood)
| browser would emulate the one I like, and do some research, I guess
| they would find out:
|
| Users want an intuitive browser. They want one they can relate to.
| They do NOT want to have to tinker under the hood to make it work.
| (forget DL plug in's, tinkering and all that)
| They have other things to think about. They don't care how *great* it
| is. ASSEMBLE a product that does all the heavy lifting. Make it easy
| to add-on extras. Make a no-brainer product.
| Get some feedback from other class objects. You know, the ones that
| aren't geeks. THIS is your market.
| If you build only for geeks, then these will be your only customers.
| It's too small a base to work.
|
| Anyway, just some thoughts for wanna-be programmers

Very good points, and your comments match my own.

I tried Mozilla for several months. I wanted to like it, because I
want to get off the MS bandwagon, but unfortunately found little things
quite annoying. For example I wanted to be able to sort my subscribed
newsgroup names into alphabetical order instead of the order I
subscribed to them. It should be a simple matter, but none of the
fixes seemed to work. Another annoyance was the views, regardless of
how I set them they would seem to take on a life of their own and
change.

The browser was very good, fast but a little strange in parts. Many
pages would not render correctly, including my banks internet banking
page which I used every couple of days. I was forced to use IE for
some pages, and Mozilla for others, and this became annoying.

I have not given up on it, and will download and install Firebird again
in a month or two to try it again - hopefully it will do what I need it
to then.

I will also agree with your comments regarding the under the hood
workings. I have "been there - done that" with the fiddling and
tinkering to get software to work. At this stage I want to be able to
install and run any software I install with the minimum of configuration
needed, and much as I hate to admit it, MS has that side of it right
with the configuration of IE and Outlook Express.

Sorry Mozilla/Firebird fans - I do like the product, it just has a
little way to go in my opinion.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus


 
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MrToad
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2003
"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> Ran in the back door and shouted
news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com:

> DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message
> news:Xns9434265C230CBWobbly@216.168.3.30...
>> I fail to see why you could not set firebird up as I stated. My

> girlfriend
>> managed to do this by herself, and she is far from a geek

>
> Nice one.............However, and here's the deal for anyone that
> works on Firebird.............
>
> Sure, I got the setting to work fine. After all, after about 100
> re-installs lately, I've got the experience.........I didn't DL the
> plug-ins, however, and the standard skin was fine.
>
> The *problem*, for me, and for those like me, is that it's not worth
> the trouble to re-learn all the methodology to do stuff that *should*
> be intuitive. Maybe MS uses a better Q group (a crowd that rates
> various stuff for mfg's). Or maybe I've just learned the MS way due to
> simple repitition. But, I think not. I LIKED, and used the old Opera
> for a long time. It too was a great browser. (till they killed it with
> bloat).
>
> What I'm saying it this: "From the install, using Mozilla <or
> Firebird> is counter-intuitive. It's a pain to use. I can't see under
> the hood and don't care much. Sure, I'd LIKE to not use M$, like I'd
> like not to drive a Ford. But I'm driving a Ford if walking is the
> alternative.
>
> MM
>
>


The "methodology" isn't more intuitive in IE, [since you've learned to
use a browser fron M$ from the start], everything else that doesn't do
things like IE doesn't "feel" right.
It *does* take some getting use to, but effort is worth it IMO.
I don't use Mozilla's news group client though, I'm "used" to XNews and I
won't use anything else...

I've only found two pages that I can't read using Mozilla, [1.4], one is
Windows Update, [thanks M$!], the other concerns an Adobe-based page that
uses 3rd party plug-ins.
I can live with that.

--
MrToad

 
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DeMoN LaG
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2003
"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com:

> The *problem*, for me, and for those like me, is that it's not worth
> the trouble to re-learn all the methodology to do stuff that *should*
> be intuitive. Maybe MS uses a better Q group (a crowd that rates
> various stuff
>


Examples of things that need to be relearned?

Type into URL bar <enter>
Control + N = New Window
Click link means follow link

What is different?

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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