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Want a better browser?

 
 
DeMoN LaG
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      11-15-2003
"Oldus Fartus" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:bp510o$reb$1
@otis.netspace.net.au:

> The browser was very good, fast but a little strange in parts. Many
> pages would not render correctly, including my banks internet banking
> page which I used every couple of days. I was forced to use IE for
> some pages, and Mozilla for others, and this became annoying.


There is nothing that can be done by the Firebird team to fix this. Some
banks code their sites only for IE (screw standards or compatibility).
Capital One went as far as taking extreme measure to block anything other
than Netscape 4.x (which sucks) and IE 5+ by doing:
If Mozilla > 4.0
if not document.layers <block code>
if Mozilla >= 5.0 and not document.all <block code>

Only browsers that are Mozilla 4.0 and higher that support Netscape's
Layers tag or 5.0 and up that support document.all (a propriatery MS thing)
are allowed in. Capital One said there was "Security Issues" with Mozilla,
but refused to talk to anyone at Netscape or Mozilla.org about these issues
and continued to tell people "We are working with Netscape for a fix". The
entire fix to making the browser work without security issues (that never
existed) was to simply remove the browser blocking code.

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Michael-NC
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      11-16-2003

"DeMoN LaG" <n@a> wrote in message
news:Xns943488B0562A6Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
> "Oldus Fartus" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:bp510o$reb$1
> @otis.netspace.net.au:
>
> > The browser was very good, fast but a little strange in parts. Many
> > pages would not render correctly, including my banks internet banking
> > page which I used every couple of days. I was forced to use IE for
> > some pages, and Mozilla for others, and this became annoying.

>
> There is nothing that can be done by the Firebird team to fix this. Some
> banks code their sites only for IE (screw standards or compatibility).
> Capital One went as far as taking extreme measure to block anything other
> than Netscape 4.x (which sucks) and IE 5+ by doing:
> If Mozilla > 4.0
> if not document.layers <block code>
> if Mozilla >= 5.0 and not document.all <block code>
>
> Only browsers that are Mozilla 4.0 and higher that support Netscape's
> Layers tag or 5.0 and up that support document.all (a propriatery MS

thing)
> are allowed in. Capital One said there was "Security Issues" with

Mozilla,
> but refused to talk to anyone at Netscape or Mozilla.org about these

issues
> and continued to tell people "We are working with Netscape for a fix".

The
> entire fix to making the browser work without security issues (that never
> existed) was to simply remove the browser blocking code.


All I see at Cap1 is a requirement for 128 bit encrypted browser.

BTW, Firebird and /or mozilla is just not as good as IE. IMO, of course.


 
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DeMoN LaG
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      11-16-2003
"Michael-NC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:BCztb.2873$tP4.328743
@twister.southeast.rr.com:

> All I see at Cap1 is a requirement for 128 bit encrypted browser.


That is what they changed. They previously stated that you needed either
Netscape 4.08 through 4.7x, or IE 5+. Firebird and Mozilla are both 128-
bit enabled browsers, and also don't have the same SSL exploits in IE, yet
they were denied access intentionally.

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Mr. Majestik
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      11-17-2003

DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message news:Xns943487A1DEA6CWobbly@216.168.3.30...
> Examples of things that need to be relearned?
>


You've heard but a sampling of what I've told you. Many more won't post for
a variety of reasons. I'd like to give you specifics, knowing you mean well
and would give good answers, but I can't. It's kinda like this:

When I moved to Guatemala, they said I needed to think in a different way. I
said, "What ways?"

They said, "We can't explain, it's too xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (non translateable),
but you'll grow into it."

The team needs to do some study, and get over their arrogance......sorry.

MM


 
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Roy@home.net
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      11-17-2003
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:41:20 GMT, "Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message news:Xns943487A1DEA6CWobbly@216.168.3.30...
>> Examples of things that need to be relearned?
>>

>
>You've heard but a sampling of what I've told you. Many more won't post for
>a variety of reasons. I'd like to give you specifics, knowing you mean well
>and would give good answers, but I can't. It's kinda like this:
>
>When I moved to Guatemala, they said I needed to think in a different way. I
>said, "What ways?"
>
>They said, "We can't explain, it's too xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (non translateable),
>but you'll grow into it."
>
>The team needs to do some study, and get over their arrogance......sorry.
>
>MM
>


I haven't been following this discussion well, mainly because I
haven't used the various software.

But I would like to point out something. I actually have work to do.
When some techie comes to me and says "Oh! Use this sofftware, because
its better because XYZ", 99% of the time I'm thinking "That's fine for
you. Your job is to fiddle with software. My job is to *use*
software." So, all software comes to me with extreme skepticism.

I am willing to commit about 3% of my time to fiddling with systems
and software. The other 97% has to go to work.

I don't really care if it's better. The real question is whether it is
expedient.

Roy - Carpe Noctem
 
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DeMoN LaG
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      11-17-2003
"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com:

> The team needs to do some study, and get over their arrogance......sorry.
>


See, this is why nothing will get "fixed". I see no problems with the
interface. Control + N is new window. Control + L lets me type a new URL.
Alt + F4 closes the window. This is all exactly the same as IE.

The toolbar in IE goes:
Back, Forward, Stop, Refresh, Home
In Firebird:
Back, Forward, Refresh, Stop, Home

If you can quantify what feels different, I will check and see if there is
perhaps an extension or skin that fixes that and suggest it, or file a
request for enhancement bug on Firebird to get it changed. Otherwise,
nothing can be done to make the browser any better, as you have given
nothing to fix.

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Mr. Majestik
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      11-17-2003

DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message news:Xns9436AB9E84A4Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
> See, this is why nothing will get "fixed". I see no problems with the
> interface. Control + N is new window. ......yada, yada, yada.....


No,THIS is why nothing will get "fixed" Some fine soul just now posted his
apprehension about new software, and wouldn't have if someone (anyone) would
listen!

One more time for the audience........

Check out the new *skin*. I assume you have...........WHY do I (we) like it
so much? Read the previous posts (mine, especially). This is the way WE
WANT THE BROWSER TO FUNCTION. That's it. Nothing more. No conspiracy, no
MS lovers, we all hate them. But, this is what WE want. Turn Mozilla into
THAT, and allow it to install just as easily, and, WOW, everyone loves the
app. Simple as that. Really.

How about the gang (the ones that make this thing work) do THAT (nothing
more), and then see what will happen? Can this be done? That was the
entirety of my previous (many post) question, Demon.


 
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DeMoN LaG
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      11-17-2003
"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com:

> Check out the new *skin*. I assume you have...........WHY do I (we)


I have no idea what new skin you are talking about. I use (and always
have) used the default firebird skin

> like it so much? Read the previous posts (mine, especially). This is
> the way WE WANT THE BROWSER TO FUNCTION. That's it. Nothing more. No


It does, and has for the past 2 or 3 versions

> conspiracy, no MS lovers, we all hate them. But, this is what WE want.
> Turn Mozilla into THAT, and allow it to install just as easily, and,
> WOW, everyone loves the app. Simple as that. Really.


Turn it into WHAT!? It is visually very similar to IE, renders pages
very similar to IE (though usually faster), and it's default install
automatically does things like block unwanted popups and the like.

> How about the gang (the ones that make this thing work) do THAT
> (nothing more), and then see what will happen? Can this be done? That
> was the entirety of my previous (many post) question, Demon.


Can /what/ be done? What I basically read out of your post is you don't
like it because it isn't IE. There is no functional difference that has
been pointed out. You say:
"
What I'm saying it this: "From the install, using Mozilla <or Firebird>
is
counter-intuitive. It's a pain to use. I can't see under the hood and
don't
care much. Sure, I'd LIKE to not use M$, like I'd like not to drive a
Ford.
But I'm driving a Ford if walking is the alternative.
"

I want examples of how it is a pain to use. You give me back:

"
I'd like to give you specifics, knowing you mean well
and would give good answers, but I can't. It's kinda like this:
<example about moving to a new country>
"

So I ask one more time, what exactly does not fit your needs as a simple,
easy to use browser?

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Mr. Majestik
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-17-2003

DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message news:Xns943619285C323Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
> So I ask one more time, what exactly does not fit your needs as a simple,
> easy to use browser?
>


Ok, I'll bite. (I have no idea why, though You don't want to compare it to
Avant's, right? Well, that's EXACTLY what I want. Simple install.
(not......just unzip to the folder of your choice), I LOVE the mouse
buttons, I love the tabbed windows, (you open them, and switch whenever you
want), I dont' CARE about the keyboard shorts, I can't remember my shoe size
most days.....

I like the skin. although any will do. I LIKE the group for favorites. It's
easy to get organized. Built in Google. Doesn't everyone use it? Stop the
pops, clears history on closing. What else............

The bottom bar shows what's happening. What else............Nothing else
really. IF Mozilla would just do THAT (above) and not hassle me with plug
ins, DL's, tinkering, hassles............then it too would be fine.

Is this what you mean?




 
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Thor
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      11-17-2003
I'm no going to jump into the firebird vs. IE argument, because I've never
used firebird, so I can't take an informed view on it. However, if you want
lots of the features that make alternative browsers attractive, but still
want to use IE, I would suggest trying "MyIE2", which is an alternative
shell for IE. I'm completely sold on it. It's free, a very small download,
and works very well, doesn't overwrite any of your IE files, and no need to
install a completely different browser package to get the built-in pop up
suppression, tabbed browsing, and a host of other useful features. It also
has some handy plugins of it's own, like a TinyURL button. Simply click on
the button, and it will instantly take you to the TinyURL site where your
shortened URL is waiting already. Quite cool.




"Mr. Majestik" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote in message

news:Xns943619285C323Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
> > So I ask one more time, what exactly does not fit your needs as a

simple,
> > easy to use browser?
> >

>
> Ok, I'll bite. (I have no idea why, though You don't want to compare it

to
> Avant's, right? Well, that's EXACTLY what I want. Simple install.
> (not......just unzip to the folder of your choice), I LOVE the mouse
> buttons, I love the tabbed windows, (you open them, and switch whenever

you
> want), I dont' CARE about the keyboard shorts, I can't remember my shoe

size
> most days.....
>
> I like the skin. although any will do. I LIKE the group for favorites.

It's
> easy to get organized. Built in Google. Doesn't everyone use it? Stop the
> pops, clears history on closing. What else............
>
> The bottom bar shows what's happening. What else............Nothing else
> really. IF Mozilla would just do THAT (above) and not hassle me with plug
> ins, DL's, tinkering, hassles............then it too would be fine.
>
> Is this what you mean?
>
>
>
>



 
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