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BRINGING TWO IDE HHs INTO THE FRAY

 
 
Calvin Crumrine
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      10-23-2003
~~~AllisonWonderland~~~ wrote:

> D:
>
>>or are they all chained m/s?

>
>
> JCA:
> What is "all chained m/s"?
>


M/S probably means Master/Slave. All & Chained seem redundant. Since M/S
doesn't apply to SCSI you only have 2 drives that could be in a M/S
relationship. If you have a M/S relationship therefore, by definition,
*all* your drives (that could be) are in that relationship. (D could be
asking you to check-if both drives are set M, or both set S, or one set
as M or S & the other set as Cable Select (CS) then that could be
causing your problem. They should either both be set as CS or both be
set as M & be on separate cables/controllers, or one should be set as M
& the other as S if they're on the same cable/controller, i.e. chained.)

This probably isn't clear because we're talking about what's possible.
What you need to do is specify how you have them set up. Are they on the
same cable/controller? How are they jumpered?

 
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Calvin Crumrine
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      10-23-2003
Night_Seer wrote:

> ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~ wrote:
>
>>Night_Seer wrote:
>>
>>>Where are these two drives connected?

>>
>>JC Allison:
>>I don't know. They came installed with the removable trays which
>>contained the 120 gig IDE HDDs. And I was told that I would have to
>>partition, and format them.
>>
>>NS:
>>
>>>To the onboard IDE, or to a seperate PCI card?

>>
>>JCA:
>>Again, I don't know...
>>
>>NS:
>>
>>>The only place I know to check is in bios.

>>
>>JCA:
>>Alright. I did some research on how to access a look at the bios
>>which was by doing a <cntrl+alt+esc> and some other ways... I
>>hesitate to do omuch of that because I don't feel
>>comfortable/confident without having a pretty good idea about that
>>with which I am messing, and what to expect in the way of things that
>>need to be done.


BIOS & CMOS Setup are essentially the same thing. If you're not
comfortable accessing it then don't-take it to a tech. Accessing it
isn't difficult IMO, but I've done it so often I might be blind to your
fears. The one thing I do know though is that if you're afraid (call it
uncertain-less stigma attached to that although I don't know why) then
you probably shouldn't do it-at least not without supervision. If
possible, find a tech that will walk you thru it explaining what you're
doing. After that you should be less uncomfortable doing it yourself,
assuming you need to do anything similar in the future.

 
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~~~AllisonWonderland~~~
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      10-24-2003
Calvin C wrote:
> BIOS & CMOS Setup are essentially the same thing. If you're not
> comfortable accessing it then don't-take it to a tech.


JC Allison:
Well, I got into CMOS, but found nothing that made any reference to the two
120 gig IDE HDDs.

CC:
> Accessing it isn't difficult IMO, but I've done it so often I might be

blind to your fears.

JCA:
I've noticed a certain blaise'-ness that comes with experience. Things that
take a great deal of concentration to do, get done quicky, deftly,
approaching carelessness... And all the stuff like touching the frame for
grounding, and watching out for screw drivers that were magnetic... either
is done second-naturedly, or ignored totally.

CC:
> The one thing I do know though is that if you're afraid (call it
> uncertain-less stigma attached to that although I don't know why) then
> you probably shouldn't do it-at least not without supervision.


JCA:
Actually, I am capable of messing with the stuff, and I've done a bit of it
before, but it has been some time ago, and I think that what is happening is
that it is like bike riding...

CC:
> If possible, find a tech that will walk you thru it explaining what you're
> doing. After that you should be less uncomfortable doing it yourself,
> assuming you need to do anything similar in the future.


JCA:
And that in fact is what I am getting ready to do. And it has been by the
kind responses to my posts that I am finding the "other" factors that need
to be explored and known, and that information will be gathered. During the
gathering of info, other salient factors become apparent, and the education
afforded by delving into those becomes part of the process, and it seems
that the more one finds the more one needs to find. Like my friend said:
"Nothing is easy anymore!"

I think there is another post to which I have answers to diagnostic
questions, and so will give some information about the system there. And I
have some direct questions. I'm capable of dealing with the system, I just
need to know what I need to do to communicate with it on this matter.

Anyway Calvin, thanks for taking the time to deal with this in this manner.
I appreciate your effort.




 
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~~~AllisonWonderland~~~
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      10-24-2003
Night_Seer wrote:
> To the onboard IDE, or to a seperate PCI card?


JC Allison:
There is a ribbon cable from one of the onboard IDE connectors on the Tyan
Trinity i845 Mainboard to the IDE HDD tray. There was another ribbon cable
from the other onboard IDE connector to the other IDE HDD tray, and then on
to the CD.

NS:
> The only place I know to check is in bios.


JCA:
And what is it that I am checking for? Calvin says that if I can get into
and navigate around in CMOS that I have a chance here... Well, I am
comfortable with that right now.

NS:
> SO the two drives that you can't see are in removable trays...


JCA:
Yes.

NS:
> could be a problem with tha connection. This is something your going to

have to open
> up the box for, so either take it to the guy who built it or start

learning.

JCA:
Alright, I opened up the box, and I am comfortable with this. With the box
open, the connections were as described above with regard to the ribbon
cables, and also the power cables were in place. But just for starters, the
power light on the IDE HDD tray which is on the front of the computer
doesn't come on. So I wonder if there is a switch that needs to be set, or
enabled to supply power to the IDE HDD tray, and thus to the HDD when it is
in place.

Anyway Night Seer... the process continues apace.. Thanks for taking the
time and making the effort to help.


 
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DeMoN LaG
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      10-24-2003
"~~~AllisonWonderland~~~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> Alright, I opened up the box, and I am comfortable with this. With the
> box open, the connections were as described above with regard to the
> ribbon cables, and also the power cables were in place. But just for
> starters, the power light on the IDE HDD tray which is on the front of
> the computer doesn't come on. So I wonder if there is a switch that
> needs to be set, or enabled to supply power to the IDE HDD tray, and
> thus to the HDD when it is in place.


It is possible that the drives are just sitting inside the trays, and not
actually plugged in to the internal IDE and power cables. Can you remove
the trays and check that?

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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Night_Seer
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      10-24-2003
DeMoN LaG wrote:
> "~~~AllisonWonderland~~~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:(E-Mail Removed):
>
>> Alright, I opened up the box, and I am comfortable with this. With
>> the box open, the connections were as described above with regard to
>> the ribbon cables, and also the power cables were in place. But just
>> for starters, the power light on the IDE HDD tray which is on the
>> front of the computer doesn't come on. So I wonder if there is a
>> switch that needs to be set, or enabled to supply power to the IDE
>> HDD tray, and thus to the HDD when it is in place.

>
> It is possible that the drives are just sitting inside the trays, and
> not actually plugged in to the internal IDE and power cables. Can
> you remove the trays and check that?


That's what I am thinking...there is some problem between the trays and
the IDE connection..maybe bent pins or like you said a switch. Do these
trays require power, and are they getting it. Are the hard drives getting
power? You mentioned there were ribbon cables connected, but are the power
cables connected as well? There should be no less than 2 cables connected
to the back of the HDD.

--
Night_Seer


 
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DeMoN LaG
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      10-24-2003
"Night_Seer" <ecamacho4 at hotmail dot com> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> That's what I am thinking...there is some problem between the
> trays and
> the IDE connection..maybe bent pins or like you said a switch. Do
> these trays require power, and are they getting it. Are the hard
> drives getting power? You mentioned there were ribbon cables
> connected, but are the power cables connected as well? There should
> be no less than 2 cables connected to the back of the HDD.


There should be two connections going to each removable bay (inside the
case). One IDE ribbon cable, one 4 pin power cable. If you remove the
trays from the removable bays, and open them to see the hard drives inside,
there should be a ribbon cable and power cable running from the back of the
tray to the hard drive inside.

--
AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
website: under construction
Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
email/IM for rates/services
 
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~~~AllisonWonderland~~~
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      10-24-2003
DeMoN LaG wrote:
> It is possible that the drives are just sitting inside the trays, and not
> actually plugged in to the internal IDE and power cables. Can you remove
> the trays and check that?


JC Allison:
I have just taken each Hard Disk Drive out of the "slide-in-tray". I
disconnected both of the ribbon connector, and the power connector, that is
fastened to the slide in tray, from their proper inputs into the HDD unit.
There were no bent pins, and everything fit back together perfectly. I then
returned the HDD to the slide-in-tray, fastened it down, and replaced the
lid. I then placed them back into the bays in the tower and locked them down
with the mounting handles on the front of each unit.

I have had the side off of the box, and have removed and then reinstalled
the power connectior to each of the receiving bays into which the
slide-in-tray fits, and in so doing, supposedly establishes all the
connections that it requires to power up and function.

The HDDs are electronically connected to the computer by two means. There
are, on the mainboard, two IDE connectors. There is a ribbon cable coming
from each of them to the 120 gig HDDs. And the ribbon cable that goes to the
top 120 gig HDD, THEN continues on to the CD Drive.

I see info on CMOS that under the IDE controller setup, there is a Primary
Master&Slave, and a Secondary Master&Slave. The CD is listed as the Primary
Slave, but the other three are listed as <none>

The computer needs to be told (how ever it is done) that the Primary Master
is a 120 gig WD IDE HDD, and that the Secondary Master is another 120 gig WD
IDE HDD.

Now in the CMOS there is this same listing, and when I try to tell it to do
that, it looks for a HDD, but the notice stays but a second or so, and then
is gone, without anything happening or changing. What's with that?

Anyway, I am certain that it is all hooked up properly. That all the cables
are coming from and going to all the appropriate places, though I have not
checked the power cables to see if they indeed are "hot" when the computer
is running.

I've seen bandied about the judicious use of a paper clip, about which much
has been said both pro and con for this rather dubious practice. But seeing
as to how I have a multi-tester or two here, and know how to use them if I
just knew which probe to put into which of the four holes in the fitting.
And I could probably "experiment", but I'm not sure that I couldn't mess
something up, so I haven't done any probing yet. Better safe than sorry...

But let's say that I have power to the fitting, and the fitting is connected
to the bay, and the electricity is now going into fitting that is connected
to the HDD itself. Is there a standard way to check to see if the HDD is a
functioning unit?

I remember some time ago when I was deciding on this setup, that the term
"hot-swap" was bandied about as a feature that permitted one to be working
with one HDD, and it could be removed, and another one inserted without
having to shut down the system. But now I am getting intimations that such
hot swapping can "blow the drive"... And no matter what the cause, what I
need to know is what is wrong with all this, and why won't it work?

So the question came to me... What if I were just now installing this set
up? What would I do after it is all connected to make it go? Isn't Windows
supposed to "detect" this new hardware?

Anyway, onward through the fog...



The second way they are connected is through four pin power connectors
coming from the Power Supply.

>
> --
> AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
> email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
> website: under construction
> Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
> email/IM for rates/services



 
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derek / nul
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      10-24-2003
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:00:44 -0500, "~~~AllisonWonderland~~~"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>DeMoN LaG wrote:
>> It is possible that the drives are just sitting inside the trays, and not
>> actually plugged in to the internal IDE and power cables. Can you remove
>> the trays and check that?

>
>JC Allison:
>I have just taken each Hard Disk Drive out of the "slide-in-tray". I
>disconnected both of the ribbon connector, and the power connector, that is
>fastened to the slide in tray, from their proper inputs into the HDD unit.
>There were no bent pins, and everything fit back together perfectly. I then
>returned the HDD to the slide-in-tray, fastened it down, and replaced the
>lid. I then placed them back into the bays in the tower and locked them down
>with the mounting handles on the front of each unit.


As well as the locking handle, mine have a switch beside the locking handle,
this must either be slid sideways or turned with a key depending on the type.

Derek
 
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~~~AllisonWonderland~~~
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      10-24-2003
DeMoN LaG wrote:
> There should be two connections going to each removable bay (inside the
> case). One IDE ribbon cable, one 4 pin power cable. If you remove the
> trays from the removable bays, and open them to see the hard drives

inside,
> there should be a ribbon cable and power cable running from the back of

the
> tray to the hard drive inside.


JC Allison:
Exactly so!. BUT this is not to say that inside the back of the BAY is
alright. And I see that I need to remove one of the BAYS to see how the
slide-in-tray connects there... It is a slide in arrangement, that is made
by the using of a "handle" on the front of the slide-in-tray which "fulcrum
lock" the unit into place. And there is a "KEY arrangment that is supposed
to "lock" the unit into the machine, but it doesn't work.

I am going to open up the tower again, and remove one of the BAYS to see
what the arrangement is inside it where the slide-in-tray connects.

Thanks for the responses... I feel that we are hot on the trail...


 
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