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New Firefox bug (and fix)

 
 
Imhotep
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2005
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

> "Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
>> > "Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> >> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > <snip>
>> >> >
>> >> >> I believe this posting was to inform people about a bug and temp

> fix.
>> > So,
>> >> >> what is you point anyway? That it is a temp fix? Do you really want

> to
>> >> >> compare IE to Firefox, if so, let's talk about the mean time to fix
>> >> >> security holes. Don't think you want to go there :-O
>> >> >
>> >> > This isn't a fix. It's a workaround.
>> >> >
>> >> > A fix isn't a workaround.
>> >> >
>> >> <snip>
>> >>
>> >> It is a temp fix.
>> >
>> > Sorry, we're going to have to disagree. "Don't turn your computer on"
>> > if

> a
>> > workaround, not a fix.
>> >
>> > Likewise turning off an entire chunk of functionality (in this case,
>> > absolutely everything to do with IDN)

>>
>> Well I guess I look at it differently. I prefer a temp fix over being
>> vulnerable and yes even if it turns off a piece of functionality.

>
> I too prefer a workaround to *nothing*.
>
> But a workaround isn't a t-fix.
>
> Meaning no disrespect whatsoever, I do this **** for a living and can tell
> the difference between the two.
>
> There are undoubtedly cases where a t-fix doesn't involve a code change.
> Let's be generous and call it 1 in 500. A quick config hack is a
> /workaround/ that stops you experiencing a problems but (by definition)
> has potential impact to the running of your Production system.
>
> Let's take a specific example that (hopefully) is quite hard to refute:
> stop running Flight Trials software on a (random) aircraft if it causes it
> to fall out of the sky. This is a workaround, because you no longer gather
> flight trials data.
>
> Give it to a software engineer to work out why it caused the avionics
> lock-up, fix it, and patch the software so that you can run it - /that's/
> a t-fix. Once it's passed full, safety-critical, QA then it becomes either
> a fix or an enhancement (depends upon the contract and acceptance rules)
>
> Are we now clear on this, or have I again somehow been obtuse?
>
> H1K



Your example illustrates an absolute. This is not the case here. The
software (firefox) is still usuable *even* with the fix. It is a temp fix,
you are correct. However, it prevents people from being hacked while they
are still able to use the product. Even better, from a users view, while
using the product can you even tell that IDN has been disabled? Nope.

This is a temp fix that I can live with. And as IE users are again
vulnerable for another week, it is a lesson MS should learn from.

Now, have my comments been perfectly lucid?

Good. Now, let's keep on topic shall we?

Im
 
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Jim Watt
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2005
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:23:07 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Now, have my comments been perfectly lucid?
>
>Good. Now, let's keep on topic shall we?


I see you seem to insist on having the last word in every
discussion, even if the words are worthless.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Hairy One Kenobi
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2005
"Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:


<big snip>

> >> >> > This isn't a fix. It's a workaround.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A fix isn't a workaround.
> >> >> >
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >>
> >> >> It is a temp fix.


> > I too prefer a workaround to *nothing*.
> >
> > But a workaround isn't a t-fix.
> >
> > Meaning no disrespect whatsoever, I do this **** for a living and can

tell
> > the difference between the two.


> Your example illustrates an absolute. This is not the case here. The
> software (firefox) is still usuable *even* with the fix. It is a temp fix,
> you are correct. However, it prevents people from being hacked while they
> are still able to use the product. Even better, from a users view, while
> using the product can you even tell that IDN has been disabled? Nope.


(Sigh) How many examples do you need, before you see what's right in front
of you?

And I *didn't* give an example of a t-fix, just a workaround. Stating that
I've said the contrary doesn't make it so.

USAian users will not notice any real differencs in IDN support, because
most don't use it. I won't either, as I tend to only look at
English-language sites.

> Good. Now, let's keep on topic shall we?


Chance would be a fine thing.. <_< Best bet is, before you post next to
reread what you've written. Then remove any bigotry, and only /then/ post..
saves all of this spinning.

H1K


 
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Imhotep
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:23:07 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>Now, have my comments been perfectly lucid?
>>
>>Good. Now, let's keep on topic shall we?

>
> I see you seem to insist on having the last word in every
> discussion, even if the words are worthless.
> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com


Jim, wash you mouth it smells like ass...
 
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Imhotep
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2005
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

> "Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

>
> <big snip>
>
>> >> >> > This isn't a fix. It's a workaround.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > A fix isn't a workaround.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> <snip>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It is a temp fix.

>
>> > I too prefer a workaround to *nothing*.
>> >
>> > But a workaround isn't a t-fix.
>> >
>> > Meaning no disrespect whatsoever, I do this **** for a living and can

> tell
>> > the difference between the two.

>
>> Your example illustrates an absolute. This is not the case here. The
>> software (firefox) is still usuable *even* with the fix. It is a temp
>> fix, you are correct. However, it prevents people from being hacked while
>> they are still able to use the product. Even better, from a users view,
>> while using the product can you even tell that IDN has been disabled?
>> Nope.

>
> (Sigh) How many examples do you need, before you see what's right in front
> of you?


You are hung up the the word "temp fix" I am not. If you want to call it a
"t-fix" or "work around" sure whatever. Frankly I really don't give a
damn...

What I do give a damn about is that a security hole was plugged quickly.
Honestly, too many software vendors are leaving their users hanging when it
comes to security. Too many people are getting ripped off by ID fraud, etc,
etc. When a software company addresses the problem right away by providing
a "t-fix"/"temp fix"/"work around"/"whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it"
then I am satisfied as the issue is *NOT* being ignored.

Look at MS and IE. They backed out of a "critical" security patch leaving
the IE users unprotected for another *MONTH*. Sorry but this is
unacceptable to me. They at least could have released a "t-fix"/"temp
fix"/"work around"/"whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it" to protect
theirs users until a perminate fix/patch is available.

Why can you not see this very obvious point???????????????????????????

> And I *didn't* give an example of a t-fix, just a workaround. Stating that
> I've said the contrary doesn't make it so.
>
> USAian users will not notice any real differencs in IDN support, because
> most don't use it. I won't either, as I tend to only look at
> English-language sites.
>
>> Good. Now, let's keep on topic shall we?

>
> Chance would be a fine thing.. <_< Best bet is, before you post next to
> reread what you've written. Then remove any bigotry, and only /then/
> post.. saves all of this spinning.


Bigotry? Do you even know what he hell the word means? Please illustate
where I have said a bigoted statement! Do not waste my time with foolish BS
either as I am rapidly loosing my patients with your dribble.

> H1K



 
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Hairy One Kenobi
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2005
"Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:


<snip>

> > Chance would be a fine thing.. <_< Best bet is, before you post next to
> > reread what you've written. Then remove any bigotry, and only /then/
> > post.. saves all of this spinning.

>
> Bigotry? Do you even know what he hell the word means? Please illustate
> where I have said a bigoted statement! Do not waste my time with foolish

BS
> either as I am rapidly loosing my patients with your dribble.


No drool on *my* keyboard.. did you mean "drivel", perchance?

bigot, n, a person who is predudiced in their views and intolerant of the
opinions of others (Source - Concise OED)

bigotry, n, demonstrating that fact... ;o)

I'll just stick to the first page in Google for this very froup (for
brevity)

"Again, this was what java was all about. However, M$ did successfully
sabotage it on Windows just for that reason."

(Again concerning Java) "Kinda funny that is runs well in Linux, BSDs and
Macs but, only Windows has a problem with it....hummmmm... "

"Did you even read the paragraph??? The point was that MS intentional
sabotaged Java because it threaten their marketing strategy... "

"People have only been saying that Linux will be on the desktop for about
three years (not talking about those lame "computer" magizines that are
nothing more and a couple of "articles" and 9000 adds."

"Even Gartner is saying that within 5 years Linux will be common place on
the desktop."

"In fact Linux growth is only slow in the US. "

"Open Source has just recently become a big item."

"I know MS, the last thing they want is software that IS NOT dependant on
Windows. That IS a fact. This is how they make suckers of sooo many. " (I
guess we skipped that whole DOS & XENIX thang, then? Mind you, OS/2
<shudder>)

[The BBC] "listened, rather than trying to push new laws or hardware (Like
Microsoft and their partners)...."

"Ah yes, the old use proprietary hardware and pass the cost to the your
users...Personally, I'm not interested. " (only mentioned this one to see if
you'll retort with "Intel isn't proprietory" ;o)

"The registry was intentionally made overly complex as to force companies to
become a "Microsoft partner"."

"Ditching Microsoft would be a good start! If Linux/BSD is not your thing
check out the Macs."

"VMS was a stable reliable OS and, well, windows is just not and never has
been.... " (not that I necessarily disagree too strongly with this one - I
invariably find some excuse to reboot every few months. Although I genuinely
can't remember why I rebooted the web server last July..?)

"So, I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable explanation on what you
think Microsoft's motives are (if you do not believe me when I say they are
benefiting from spammers)"

(On the subject of spam) "Banning Windows is a thought."

"Occasionally, I hear that out-of-touch argument about "not enough
applications on linux/BSD/UNIX"..."

"Just makes sense, as proprietary software is a trap"

"When trying to understand Microsoft often one must look in the shadows for
the truth"

I've skipped the "intolerant" part - just look at any post where both you
and Jim have posted <whistling>..

By now, I've had /quite/ enough of reading this crap, as I'm sure everyone
else has. At least they didn't have to wade through it twice.

Feel free to post random news quotes - I can filter that mentally, rather
than resort to the killfile. And a killfile is, by definition, against the
very principle of Usenet. (This isn't some sort of cock-eyed threat, merely
a comment, BTW)

*Please* just follow the suggestion.. if it makes you feel better,
substitute "FUD" for that three-syllable word.

H1K

P.S. Let's just recap on the actual topic of the thread. Two exploits. FF =
turn off all IDN functionality; IE = turn off all ActiveX functionality.

Apparently, one is a wonderfully responsive "temporary fix" that affects
noone, while the other is the spam-sucking malicious deviation of a
perverted ("prevert", if you're a Kubrick/Sellers fan) US corporation that
is in on an evil consipracy to change all the hardware in the world, doesn't
produce any products (none of which are, if ever written, stable), forces
every user to become a /bone fide/ business partner (including Flight Sim
users?) merely to access their software configuration. "Evil" being defined,
of course, as anyone who maintains a trade secret. We can, of course,
thoroughly believe the source, as he works for a 45-man company that has a
turnover in excess of the entire IT industry of the sub-continent of India,
was a VMS admin at the age of twelve (but hasn't used it since shortly after
graduation), but has the saving grace that he helped to tidy-up the
crappiest IP implementation in the history of computing. And likes *nix.

Hmmm...

P.P.S. By all means attempt to refute.. but, when doing so, please try to
imagine someone the same age as yourself, sitting in front of two Dell 20"
TFTs, with a dual-AMD under the desk and a variety of hardware in a room
behind him (including two Solaris boxes and one RH machine) laughing his
'nads off at your supposed logic and displaying an erect middle finger on
his right hand.

P.P.P.S. None of this would have been written if you'd just let everything
slide. That's the thing about flame wars - someone gets burnt. Recommend
(again!) that we both stop this here and now, and agree to go our own ways.


P.P.P.P.S. I daresay the answer will be "fat chance" \

P.P.P.P.P.S. Anyone know where I can buy shares in popcorn? D


 
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Ant
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-15-2005
"Hairy One Kenobi" wrote:

> "Imhotep" wrote:
>> [...] I am rapidly loosing my patients with your dribble.

>
> No drool on *my* keyboard.. did you mean "drivel", perchance?


Looks like he's some kind of medical practitioner, and your spittle
works as a fast acting laxative for his patients.


 
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Imhotep
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-15-2005
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

> "Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

>
> <snip>
>
>> > Chance would be a fine thing.. <_< Best bet is, before you post next to
>> > reread what you've written. Then remove any bigotry, and only /then/
>> > post.. saves all of this spinning.

>>
>> Bigotry? Do you even know what he hell the word means? Please illustate
>> where I have said a bigoted statement! Do not waste my time with foolish

> BS
>> either as I am rapidly loosing my patients with your dribble.

>
> No drool on *my* keyboard.. did you mean "drivel", perchance?


Nope drool...

> bigot, n, a person who is predudiced in their views and intolerant of the
> opinions of others (Source - Concise OED)
>
> bigotry, n, demonstrating that fact... ;o)
>
> I'll just stick to the first page in Google for this very froup (for
> brevity)
>
> "Again, this was what java was all about. However, M$ did successfully
> sabotage it on Windows just for that reason."
>
> (Again concerning Java) "Kinda funny that is runs well in Linux, BSDs and
> Macs but, only Windows has a problem with it....hummmmm... "
>
> "Did you even read the paragraph??? The point was that MS intentional
> sabotaged Java because it threaten their marketing strategy... "
>
> "People have only been saying that Linux will be on the desktop for about
> three years (not talking about those lame "computer" magizines that are
> nothing more and a couple of "articles" and 9000 adds."
>
> "Even Gartner is saying that within 5 years Linux will be common place on
> the desktop."
>
> "In fact Linux growth is only slow in the US. "
>
> "Open Source has just recently become a big item."
>
> "I know MS, the last thing they want is software that IS NOT dependant on
> Windows. That IS a fact. This is how they make suckers of sooo many. " (I
> guess we skipped that whole DOS & XENIX thang, then? Mind you, OS/2
> <shudder>)
>
> [The BBC] "listened, rather than trying to push new laws or hardware (Like
> Microsoft and their partners)...."
>
> "Ah yes, the old use proprietary hardware and pass the cost to the your
> users...Personally, I'm not interested. " (only mentioned this one to see
> if you'll retort with "Intel isn't proprietory" ;o)
>
> "The registry was intentionally made overly complex as to force companies
> to become a "Microsoft partner"."
>
> "Ditching Microsoft would be a good start! If Linux/BSD is not your thing
> check out the Macs."
>
> "VMS was a stable reliable OS and, well, windows is just not and never has
> been.... " (not that I necessarily disagree too strongly with this one - I
> invariably find some excuse to reboot every few months. Although I
> genuinely can't remember why I rebooted the web server last July..?)
>
> "So, I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable explanation on what
> you think Microsoft's motives are (if you do not believe me when I say
> they are benefiting from spammers)"
>
> (On the subject of spam) "Banning Windows is a thought."
>
> "Occasionally, I hear that out-of-touch argument about "not enough
> applications on linux/BSD/UNIX"..."
>
> "Just makes sense, as proprietary software is a trap"
>
> "When trying to understand Microsoft often one must look in the shadows
> for the truth"


Yup!

> I've skipped the "intolerant" part - just look at any post where both you
> and Jim have posted <whistling>..


<yawning> whatever.

> By now, I've had /quite/ enough of reading this crap, as I'm sure everyone
> else has. At least they didn't have to wade through it twice.


I was just thinking the same about you. You waste my time yet again....

> Feel free to post random news quotes - I can filter that mentally, rather
> than resort to the killfile. And a killfile is, by definition, against the
> very principle of Usenet. (This isn't some sort of cock-eyed threat,
> merely a comment, BTW)


Do you think, even for a second, that I care what you do? Even for a second?

> *Please* just follow the suggestion.. if it makes you feel better,
> substitute "FUD" for that three-syllable word.


Can say the same about you. You have wasted my time again, not even close to
the original topic about the firefox bug. I have listen patiently to you
many times more than I wanted to.

Well, times up, I don't really care what you think about anything. Honestly
I think your nothing more than a fruitloop with too much time on your
hands. Your replies are all over the place and at time barely make sense.

So, in short, whatever...

> H1K
>

<snip yet more mindless crap>

Hint: refill your bottle of lithium...


 
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Winged
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-15-2005
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
> "Imhotep" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>Chance would be a fine thing.. <_< Best bet is, before you post next to
>>>reread what you've written. Then remove any bigotry, and only /then/
>>>post.. saves all of this spinning.

>>
>>Bigotry? Do you even know what he hell the word means? Please illustate
>>where I have said a bigoted statement! Do not waste my time with foolish

>
> BS
>
>>either as I am rapidly loosing my patients with your dribble.

>
>
> No drool on *my* keyboard.. did you mean "drivel", perchance?
>
> bigot, n, a person who is predudiced in their views and intolerant of the
> opinions of others (Source - Concise OED)
>
> bigotry, n, demonstrating that fact... ;o)
>
> I'll just stick to the first page in Google for this very froup (for
> brevity)
>
> "Again, this was what java was all about. However, M$ did successfully
> sabotage it on Windows just for that reason."
>
> (Again concerning Java) "Kinda funny that is runs well in Linux, BSDs and
> Macs but, only Windows has a problem with it....hummmmm... "
>
> "Did you even read the paragraph??? The point was that MS intentional
> sabotaged Java because it threaten their marketing strategy... "
>
> "People have only been saying that Linux will be on the desktop for about
> three years (not talking about those lame "computer" magizines that are
> nothing more and a couple of "articles" and 9000 adds."
>
> "Even Gartner is saying that within 5 years Linux will be common place on
> the desktop."
>
> "In fact Linux growth is only slow in the US. "
>
> "Open Source has just recently become a big item."
>
> "I know MS, the last thing they want is software that IS NOT dependant on
> Windows. That IS a fact. This is how they make suckers of sooo many. " (I
> guess we skipped that whole DOS & XENIX thang, then? Mind you, OS/2
> <shudder>)
>
> [The BBC] "listened, rather than trying to push new laws or hardware (Like
> Microsoft and their partners)...."
>
> "Ah yes, the old use proprietary hardware and pass the cost to the your
> users...Personally, I'm not interested. " (only mentioned this one to see if
> you'll retort with "Intel isn't proprietory" ;o)
>
> "The registry was intentionally made overly complex as to force companies to
> become a "Microsoft partner"."
>
> "Ditching Microsoft would be a good start! If Linux/BSD is not your thing
> check out the Macs."
>
> "VMS was a stable reliable OS and, well, windows is just not and never has
> been.... " (not that I necessarily disagree too strongly with this one - I
> invariably find some excuse to reboot every few months. Although I genuinely
> can't remember why I rebooted the web server last July..?)
>
> "So, I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable explanation on what you
> think Microsoft's motives are (if you do not believe me when I say they are
> benefiting from spammers)"
>
> (On the subject of spam) "Banning Windows is a thought."
>
> "Occasionally, I hear that out-of-touch argument about "not enough
> applications on linux/BSD/UNIX"..."
>
> "Just makes sense, as proprietary software is a trap"
>
> "When trying to understand Microsoft often one must look in the shadows for
> the truth"
>
> I've skipped the "intolerant" part - just look at any post where both you
> and Jim have posted <whistling>..
>
> By now, I've had /quite/ enough of reading this crap, as I'm sure everyone
> else has. At least they didn't have to wade through it twice.
>
> Feel free to post random news quotes - I can filter that mentally, rather
> than resort to the killfile. And a killfile is, by definition, against the
> very principle of Usenet. (This isn't some sort of cock-eyed threat, merely
> a comment, BTW)
>
> *Please* just follow the suggestion.. if it makes you feel better,
> substitute "FUD" for that three-syllable word.
>
> H1K
>
> P.S. Let's just recap on the actual topic of the thread. Two exploits. FF =
> turn off all IDN functionality; IE = turn off all ActiveX functionality.
>
> Apparently, one is a wonderfully responsive "temporary fix" that affects
> noone, while the other is the spam-sucking malicious deviation of a
> perverted ("prevert", if you're a Kubrick/Sellers fan) US corporation that
> is in on an evil consipracy to change all the hardware in the world, doesn't
> produce any products (none of which are, if ever written, stable), forces
> every user to become a /bone fide/ business partner (including Flight Sim
> users?) merely to access their software configuration. "Evil" being defined,
> of course, as anyone who maintains a trade secret. We can, of course,
> thoroughly believe the source, as he works for a 45-man company that has a
> turnover in excess of the entire IT industry of the sub-continent of India,
> was a VMS admin at the age of twelve (but hasn't used it since shortly after
> graduation), but has the saving grace that he helped to tidy-up the
> crappiest IP implementation in the history of computing. And likes *nix.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> P.P.S. By all means attempt to refute.. but, when doing so, please try to
> imagine someone the same age as yourself, sitting in front of two Dell 20"
> TFTs, with a dual-AMD under the desk and a variety of hardware in a room
> behind him (including two Solaris boxes and one RH machine) laughing his
> 'nads off at your supposed logic and displaying an erect middle finger on
> his right hand.
>
> P.P.P.S. None of this would have been written if you'd just let everything
> slide. That's the thing about flame wars - someone gets burnt. Recommend
> (again!) that we both stop this here and now, and agree to go our own ways.
>
>
> P.P.P.P.S. I daresay the answer will be "fat chance" \
>
> P.P.P.P.P.S. Anyone know where I can buy shares in popcorn? D
>
>

Actually, The purpose of business is to make money. What better way to
make money than to force users to upgrade every couple years. It is a
different model that HP or any of the other commercial OS vendors use,
but the bottom line is the purpose of making money for the stockholders
of the corporation. Did you ever see what the yearly usage fees being
charged for VMS or HPUX? I have seen articles how MS is wanting to go
to the lease model, because they can make more money, but they are
afraid of revolt...

Winged
 
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Hairy One Kenobi
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-15-2005
"Winged" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cd685$4328edd2$18d6dabf$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:


> Actually, The purpose of business is to make money. What better way to
> make money than to force users to upgrade every couple years. It is a
> different model that HP or any of the other commercial OS vendors use,
> but the bottom line is the purpose of making money for the stockholders
> of the corporation. Did you ever see what the yearly usage fees being
> charged for VMS or HPUX? I have seen articles how MS is wanting to go
> to the lease model, because they can make more money, but they are
> afraid of revolt...


Too right I did - and the cost of the hardware in the first place. Thing is,
at the time, they still looked cheap, when compared to the opposition.

Things got even better when Sun joined the fray..

TBH, MS already has leasing deals (things like the Small Business specials -
top of my head, it's SBS, 10 XP, 10 Office licenses, GBP 200 per annum.
Could be wrong - I don't use it). Ditto MSDN.

CA is an example of a company that relies on the leasing model - the
difference there is that the software clearly sits on top of someone else's
platform - for an OS vendor to start leasing, the whole OEM thing goes
pretty much out of the window (pun not intended). As you say, bad news for
monopolistic MS - at least in the short term.

Longer term, it's hard to tell - typical Industry S&M comes in at between 15
and 21% of purchase price, so it's an interesting balance between lease
price, purchase price (and what you could have done with the cash), and
ongoing maintenance. Nothing's simple )

As techies, I assume that none of us are paying support fees for our own
personal gear, but I would suspect that the companies that we work for
generally /do/ have a support contract in place. To help with those "WTF"
moments (a friend has just hit this with QuickBooks - an eBay retailer, he
just hit the 14,500 absolute customer limit. This is a complete show-stopper
for his entire business...)

Interestingly, this whole web activation thing - now adopted by all and
sundry - makes the perfect base point for MS to introduce a leasing model;
the downside is, of course, that no corporation in their right mind is going
to free-up their desktops to that extent, or provide that type of
bi-directional link. So we're back to the retail vs. business argument.

As goes my own company - we've had web activation for years, and have
offered leasing packages for years. Most customers still opt to purchase.
Maybe it's just the market segment we're in, because when it comes to the
development platforms, most corporates prefer to use us for PS work.

H1K


 
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