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Got Burned one too many times

 
 
Hairy One Kenobi
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
"Jim Watt" <(E-Mail Removed)_way> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:03:46 -0400, Eugene Nine <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


<snip>

> >Simply mistyping an address into internet explorer can cause nasty

spyware
> >infections, I had it happen to me a couple times when running as a non
> >admin, with java and active x disabled.

>
> Perhaps you could explain how, as it does not seem to happen
> to me, and my typing is as bad as anyones.


Just for info.. basically someone buys a type-site, copies the code, causes
a buffer overrun, gets caught because he's not good enough to cover his
tracks, and the world moves on.

My mind remains boggled as to why things still don't appear to be
dynamically allocated and bounds-checked. Even the great god Firefox was
recently kicked in the nuts by just such an exploit.

It's not exactly a new problem:

"Well, my terminal's locked up, and I ain't got any Mail,
And I can't recall the last time that my program didn't fail;
I've got stacks in my structs, I've got arrays in my queues,
I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues.

"If you think that it's nice that you get what you C,
Then go : illogical statement with your whole family,
'Cause the Supreme Court ain't the only place with : Bus error views.
I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues.

"On a PDP-11, life should be a breeze,
But with VAXen in the house even magnetic tapes would freeze.
Now you might think that unlike VAXen I'd know who I abuse,
I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues."

-- Extracted from SunOS cookie, back when SunOS was SunOS, and Solaris
was but a twinkling in the biro of the marketing department

<ducks back behind parapet>

--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!


 
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David Norris
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:36:49 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>David Norris wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>
>>>> After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>> Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must check
>>>> daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>> Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single day.
>>>
>>> My own advice would be don't bother, use Linux instead of Windows.
>>> Virtually all viruses, spyware and exploits target Windows so save
>>> yourself the never ending grief!

>>
>>I second that. If linux/BSD is not your thing, check out a Mac. They have
>>one of the nicest GUIs going....

>
> Which won't run most of the commercial and game software around.
>
> The guy wants to run windows.
> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com


Admittedly I'm not a big gamer. But I do feel that such software could be
made available for other operating systems. Mind you, Micro$oft would
probably file lawsuits...
 
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Eugene Nine
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      09-05-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:03:46 -0400, Eugene Nine <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Jim Watt wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 Sep 2005 23:45:30 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>
>>>>After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>>Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must check
>>>>daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>>Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single day.
>>>
>>> Although that sounds good stuff, you should consider why you were
>>> getting problems in the first place. My experience is that it is
>>> users who run any old rubbish found on the Internet who have
>>> problems and prevention is better than cure.
>>> --

>>Simply mistyping an address into internet explorer can cause nasty spyware
>>infections, I had it happen to me a couple times when running as a non
>>admin, with java and active x disabled.

>
> Perhaps you could explain how, as it does not seem to happen
> to me, and my typing is as bad as anyones.
> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com

I couldn't tell you, I made several attempts to remove it and finally just
reformatted since after an hour of messing with it I could have already had
it reinstalled. Could be that the site I hit has been shutdown now, but my
point is there are still too many holes in MS OS even if you are being
extra careful.
 
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Eugene Nine
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      09-05-2005
Imhotep wrote:

> Eugene Nine wrote:
>
>> Management wrote:
>>
>>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>> After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>> Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must check
>>>> daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>> Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single day.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm fascinated by this, very curious as to how you managed to get
>>> "various Viruses". We have three machines on a home network, all
>>> have AVG which updates daily, each machine has ZoneAlarm to control
>>> what gets out and the router/modem firewall ensures that our network
>>> is "stealthed". We run AdAware & SpyBot every week or so. Each
>>> machine uses Hosts to block various nasties. The three machines are
>>> XP Pro, XP Home & Windows 98. We all use FireFox & Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> What we don't do:
>>>
>>> Use Internet Explorer or ActiveX (except for Windows Update) or
>>> Outlook Express.
>>> We do not accept or use HTML in email and we NEVER open unsolicited
>>> attachments.
>>> We don't download files until we are sure that the sites are genuine
>>> and AVG checks them before installing.
>>>
>>> Obviously there has been a learning curve, I have learned a lot over
>>> the years (especially from the newsgroups at grc.com).
>>>

>> Using internet explorer is the mail culprit. I had the same issue a year
>> or
>> so ago before firefox was popular. I disabled active X, disabled
>> javascript, ran as a non administrator and still got some nasty spyware
>> just from mis-typing a web site address.

>
> Doing all things things will not make you 100% secure (you're using
> windows!) However, it is a step in the right direction...
>
> Im

That was my point, that it won't make you secure, your only band-aiding a
few of the large holes but there are plenty of others in windows, thats why
I made the switch

 
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Eugene Nine
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
Imhotep wrote:

> Eugene Nine wrote:
>
>> Jim Watt wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:36:49 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>David Norris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>>>> Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must
>>>>>> check daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>>>> Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>
>>>>> My own advice would be don't bother, use Linux instead of Windows.
>>>>> Virtually all viruses, spyware and exploits target Windows so save
>>>>> yourself the never ending grief!
>>>>
>>>>I second that. If linux/BSD is not your thing, check out a Mac. They
>>>>have one of the nicest GUIs going....
>>>
>>> Which won't run most of the commercial and game software around.
>>>
>>> The guy wants to run windows.

>>
>> Dual boot then, boot windows to play games and boot linux to do anything
>> else.
>> I've used mac's and have not been impressed compared to what is available
>> for Linux.

>
> I am not a Mac guy but, I have played around with them at various stores.
> I sure the desktop manager...really slick...
>
> Imhotep

I've played with and supported a few and found their desktop manager no
better than KDE. Plus the size of the icons such wastes too much screen
space for us who want smaller laptops that are actually capable of being
carried around. They are just too dumed down for me.

 
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Eugene Nine
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:49:16 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>Jim Watt wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:36:49 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>David Norris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>>>> Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must
>>>>>> check daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>>>> Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>
>>>>> My own advice would be don't bother, use Linux instead of Windows.
>>>>> Virtually all viruses, spyware and exploits target Windows so save
>>>>> yourself the never ending grief!
>>>>
>>>>I second that. If linux/BSD is not your thing, check out a Mac. They
>>>>have one of the nicest GUIs going....
>>>
>>> Which won't run most of the commercial and game software around.

>>
>>BS...
>>
>>> The guy wants to run windows.

>>
>>...I believe he said he was TRIED of computer crashes, spayware and
>>viruses. Did he not?

>
> I'm tired of idiots who can't address the question of running windows
> safely except by lame comments like 'get a Mac or use Linux'
>

Because you can't run Windows securly

> I look after a number of PC's running a mix of versions of windows
> and the cause of problems is the users, where they behave sensibly,
> there is no malware.
>

Same here and I have gotten infected with spyware myself without allowing
any of it to be installed.

> Just say NO to 'toolbars' 'search assistants' and the wonderful
> smiley things andtheir ilk then life is easy.
>
> Now I'm off to see someone with Lop who didn't listen
> but if I told him to get a Mac he would laugh.


LOP is one of the known toolbars that doesn't ask to be installed so no
amount of user education canhelp there.

> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com


 
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Jim Watt
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:43:37 -0400, Eugene Nine <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> I'm tired of idiots who can't address the question of running windows
>> safely except by lame comments like 'get a Mac or use Linux'
>>

>Because you can't run Windows securly


Mine seems OK, and I've never got Lop

Seen lots of messages inviting me and telling me to
download programs, its a pity that there is not an option
in IE or indeed firefox which prevents executables
being downloaded. That would be progress.

FWIW the lop removal tool from their website seems
to have removed it.

--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Jim Watt
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:07:41 GMT, David Norris
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Admittedly I'm not a big gamer. But I do feel that such software could be
>made available for other operating systems. Mind you, Micro$oft would
>probably file lawsuits...


The issue is really that the Mac is such a minority market and
Linux users so varied that software developers would not get a
return on their investment. In the past when I did sell games
for small machines we used to carry the same games for around
four different platforms. and it was tedious. Added to that they
have got far more complex than the simple Z80/6502 offerings
of that era.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Imhotep
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
David Norris wrote:

> Jim Watt wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:36:49 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>David Norris wrote:
>>>
>>>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>>> Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must
>>>>> check daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>>> Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single
>>>>> day.
>>>>
>>>> My own advice would be don't bother, use Linux instead of Windows.
>>>> Virtually all viruses, spyware and exploits target Windows so save
>>>> yourself the never ending grief!
>>>
>>>I second that. If linux/BSD is not your thing, check out a Mac. They have
>>>one of the nicest GUIs going....

>>
>> Which won't run most of the commercial and game software around.
>>
>> The guy wants to run windows.
>> --
>> Jim Watt
>> http://www.gibnet.com

>
> Admittedly I'm not a big gamer. But I do feel that such software could be
> made available for other operating systems. Mind you, Micro$oft would
> probably file lawsuits...


First the issue of game software is pretty insignificant. I do not anyone
who relies on M$ Windows for gaming software. All of the people I know use
a gaming console like the PlayStation, etc, etc...

Second, when shoosing a OS I believe not being ripped off because you have
spyware, keyloggers, etc is more important anyway.

Imhotep
 
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Imhotep
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:49:16 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>Jim Watt wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:36:49 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>David Norris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After various Viruses, and crashes on my computer I now use a daily 3
>>>>>> Step method that seems to have stopped the problem but still must
>>>>>> check daily. I use AVG Anti-Virus, SpyBot search & destroy and pc bug
>>>>>> Detector. Checking updates daily and running each one every single
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>
>>>>> My own advice would be don't bother, use Linux instead of Windows.
>>>>> Virtually all viruses, spyware and exploits target Windows so save
>>>>> yourself the never ending grief!
>>>>
>>>>I second that. If linux/BSD is not your thing, check out a Mac. They
>>>>have one of the nicest GUIs going....
>>>
>>> Which won't run most of the commercial and game software around.

>>
>>BS...
>>
>>> The guy wants to run windows.

>>
>>...I believe he said he was TRIED of computer crashes, spayware and
>>viruses. Did he not?

>
> I'm tired of idiots who can't address the question of running windows
> safely except by lame comments like 'get a Mac or use Linux'


This is the point. I did run M$ Windows safely for sometime. The point for
me was I was tried of being a slave to my computer. I was tied of updating
the numerous anti-spayware, anti-virus, anti-this and anti-that. I was
spending more time on this than simply enjoying the Internet. This is the
point.

Get Mac is not a lame point. The new Mac has a FreeBSD core. In as such is
much more secure than a M$ Windows box. Stop being a M$ zombie and look to
another solution when your current solution is just not cutting it...

> I look after a number of PC's running a mix of versions of windows
> and the cause of problems is the users, where they behave sensibly,
> there is no malware.


That is an overly used excuse. The OS should not be so easily compromised.
Honestly, the blame should be equally shared between the user and the
software vendor.

Again, people like you have become a zombie and will look to any excuse to
not blame the source: Microsoft.

> Just say NO to 'toolbars' 'search assistants' and the wonderful
> smiley things andtheir ilk then life is easy.
>
> Now I'm off to see someone with Lop who didn't listen
> but if I told him to get a Mac he would laugh.


Try educting him. Like I am with you.

> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com


Imhotep
 
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