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spam canned.

 
 
Imhotep
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      09-04-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:39:23 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>Jim, you might not mind getting "clean" spam but, there are many people
>>like me that do not want ANY spam ("clean" or otherwise)...

>
> But laws have a wide application, and are not just for the few.


Allowing people to choose if they want spam or not is truly allowing for the
"all".

> If were were limited to only sending messages to people we had
> received one from the process could never start. You ignore
> my point that companies invited email by publishing their addresses
> indeed I publish mine on the Internet and as the whois contact
> for domains.


I also post my email address on the domains I own/responsible for. I am NOT
asking for SPAM!!! The email address listing on a whois table is for
TECHNICAL contacts and NOT for spammers. Why can you not get this through
your head???

> Thats why your pathetic attempts to harass me by malevolently
> posting my email address here have no effect.


You said you like receiving spam, I was just helping you....

> Laws that are unworkable or against peoples interests are bad
> laws.


...and ones that help people are good laws. So, what is your point? That anti
spam laws that place the power in the individuals hands are bad? I think
people are responsible enough to handle that responsibility...

> its also a pity you cannot address the topic, rather than just
> attacking me for presenting views.


Paranoia????

I am not attacking you for your views, I only attack you when you act like a
dickhead...


SUMMARY:
We need anti spam laws that give the recipients the power to choose if they
want spam and NOT the marketing companies....Doing this will cut down on
computer resources and recipient frustrations. The real problem here is
that marketing companies have a lot of money and are worried that their
revenue will be hurt...

Imhotep
> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com


 
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Jim Watt
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      09-04-2005
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:43:39 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

<snip>

>SUMMARY:
>We need anti spam laws that give the recipients the power to choose if they
>want spam and NOT the marketing companies....Doing this will cut down on
>computer resources and recipient frustrations. The real problem here is
>that marketing companies have a lot of money and are worried that their
>revenue will be hurt...


No the issue is that there needs to be a balance, and the NZ law could
penalise legitimate use of email and will either become unworkable in
practice or will hinder legitimate business in that jurisdiction.

What is required is legislation which prevents junkmail, as self
regulation by the bandwidth suppliers does not work in larger places

A good 50% of my incoming junkmail consists now of lotteries and 419's
which come from free webmail services. This is not addressed at all
as the originators are outside the scope of any laws.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Jim Watt
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      09-04-2005
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:04:15 +1000, Dazz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

<snippage>

>However, just as I don't want to read an email about improving my sex
>life, I also don't want emails containing propaganda about Microsoft's
>latest version of Office or a bloated Operating System.


Actually they don't seem to send that sort of stuff, and genuine
companies that do desist when asked nicely or otherwise.

There is a precedent with fax, where I believe its illegal to send
unsolicited advertising that way in Germany. Fax incurs local call
charges in Europe and normally a direct cost to the recipient in
paper. As it takes longer to send and involves cost it never took
on the same dimension as email unsolicited messaging although
it could be annoying. we pioneered the idea of a fax bureau and
would get multiple copies of anyone trying it as an advertising
medium. The telco generally leaned on people doing this and
in one case took their time reconnecting a line after it was
malciously cut by persons unknown.

In the case of MS, you are right that they should not be dictating
policy, however given their size they probably spend a lot of money
on research and employing good people so they have a valid
opinion. It is also a healthy thing for Govrnments to consult
industry about legislation. MS have the advantage of a global
view of things.

The root cause of the problem is, IMHO that the protocols for
email do not allow authentication of the sender. Although
email is perhaps the most useful part of the Internet it needs
replacement. That it should be replaced by a proprietry system
would be bad news for everyone.

In the meantime, I blame the carriers for allowing spammers to
exist and free email services which allow Chief Umboko & co
to offer me the proceeds of crime..
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Imhotep
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      09-04-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:43:39 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>SUMMARY:
>>We need anti spam laws that give the recipients the power to choose if
>>they want spam and NOT the marketing companies....Doing this will cut down
>>on computer resources and recipient frustrations. The real problem here is
>>that marketing companies have a lot of money and are worried that their
>>revenue will be hurt...

>
> No the issue is that there needs to be a balance, and the NZ law could
> penalise legitimate use of email and will either become unworkable in
> practice or will hinder legitimate business in that jurisdiction.


I do not see any possibly of hindrance with respect to companies. Companies
could easily maintain a web frontend for all the people who wish to sign up
for their marketing service. Writing and maintaining such a service is
trivial.

> What is required is legislation which prevents junkmail, as self
> regulation by the bandwidth suppliers does not work in larger places


True, ISP do not make great Cops and some of them do not make great ISP
either.

> A good 50% of my incoming junkmail consists now of lotteries and 419's
> which come from free webmail services. This is not addressed at all
> as the originators are outside the scope of any laws.


Let's break down the sources of spam:

1) Windows pcs that have some type of spyware
2) Free email services
3) Companies (either directly from their resources or through a second party
marketing company)

#1 -- Not much you can do here. MS Vista promises to help things but at a
large cost. Banning Windows is a thought. Also, some of these machines are
hijacked to send out spam (acting as a third party to legitimate
companies). These companies would be held liable. So, the NZ law would help
here.

#2 -- Most free email services have some protection. Some limit how much
email you can send per day. Again, any spmammer using this service on
behalf of a legitmate company would be penalize by the NZ law.

#3 -- Would be covered completely by the NZ law.

Clearly an NZ type law would help...

> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com



Im
 
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Jim Watt
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      09-04-2005
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:00:21 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I do not see any possibly of hindrance with respect to companies. Companies
>could easily maintain a web frontend for all the people who wish to sign up
>for their marketing service. Writing and maintaining such a service is
>trivial.


No its not, it would cost money and time to maintain.

Get real.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Imhotep
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      09-05-2005
Jim Watt wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:00:21 -0400, Imhotep <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>I do not see any possibly of hindrance with respect to companies.
>>Companies could easily maintain a web frontend for all the people who wish
>>to sign up for their marketing service. Writing and maintaining such a
>>service is trivial.

>
> No its not, it would cost money and time to maintain.


No it would not. Please! Have you ever written a PHP app with a MySQL
backend? 500 bucks for the MySQL license. That's it. Please...

Since the company is benefiting from the marketing it should be their
responsibility to maintain such a system. After all their making the money
from spamming me and everyone else. I am sure they can afford it.

> Get real.


Get Real? Jim, get a clue...

> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com


Imhotep

 
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