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US Gov looking for input about IE ONLY pre-patient web site...

 
 
Management
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      08-14-2005
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

>
> RBS/Natwest currently mandate IE. FirstDirect (Midland, now HSBC) used to,
> when I was with them. A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
> with Firefox, but I'm not sure of their official policy. I think that
> Commerzbank recently kludged to allow it.
>

<SNIP>

H1K,

I bank with Barclays, no problem with Firefox v1.0.6, ditto
Barclaycard - maybe your friend is not allowing cookies from
Barclays. I can also vouch for Citibank & Wells Fargo in the US.


Charlie.


--
Broadcasting to the environs
www.radiowymsey.org
 
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Steve Welsh
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      08-14-2005
Jim Watt wrote:
> So you keep saying, but you have a fixation..
>
> again the statistics tell a different story
>


Hmmm, not convinced about who has the fixation, Jim

Also, I notice that you don't care to mention trends, i.e. that before
Firefox arrived on the scene M$ Internet Exploder was running somewhere
about 94%.

Don't _your_ (they aren't the only ones) statistics tell you something
from that?

Anyway, it's all bollox, cos everybody in the world knows that 93.692%
of statistics are made up

Steve

> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com

 
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Jim Watt
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      08-14-2005
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:13:41 +0100, Steve Welsh <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Jim Watt wrote:
>> So you keep saying, but you have a fixation..
>>
>> again the statistics tell a different story
>>

>
>Hmmm, not convinced about who has the fixation, Jim

Clearly you mistake me for someone who cares what you think.

>Also, I notice that you don't care to mention trends, i.e. that before
>Firefox arrived on the scene M$ Internet Exploder was running somewhere
>about 94%.


OK lets look at last years figures:

Browser % of Total Visitors
---------------------------------------------------
1 Internet Explorer 6.x 69.48%
2 Internet Explorer 5.x 15.15%
3 Netscape 6.x 3.84%
4 Netscape 4.x 2.50%
5 Netscape 3.x 1.14%
6 Netscape 2.x 1.12%
7 Netscape 7.x 0.76%
8 Netscape 5.x 0.76%
9 google 0.63%
10 Opera 0.52%
11 Internet Explorer 4 0.37%

>Don't _your_ (they aren't the only ones) statistics tell you something
>from that?


Yes, people using IE5 have moved to IE6 people who used
netscape have migrated to Firefox.

>Anyway, it's all bollox, cos everybody in the world knows that 93.692%
>of statistics are made up


Ah but mine represent the other 6.308%

--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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      08-15-2005
"Management" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:42ffa3fb$0$18638$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
> <SNIP>
> >
> > I'd love a cite on that one (preferably not from an evangalist). My

company
> > codes cross-platform, so it's something that would be useful to me
> > personally in discussions (all large customers - aside from a Nutscrape

4.7
> > French car maker - are 100% IE outside of the IT department)


> Here it is, from USCERT
> http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/713878


<snip content>

OK. I'll rephrase.. can someone please supply a cite for something that
wasn't fixed more than a year ago? ;o)

H1K


 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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      08-15-2005
"Micheal Robert Zium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:


<snip>

> I never questioned that the idiots at some banks may require their
> customers to use IE, I was referring to the laughable claim of IE's
> superior security features.


As I (think) I said, it all comes down to SSL. Older browsers just don't
have 128-bit, but it was always available as an upgrade option to IE. The
FirstDirect eBanking trial in 1996 that I participated in also proved that -
unlike what they told the public - the MS JVM *could* be upgraded in-place.

Sure, there are probably ways to code around most, if not all, of these
problems. But your average bank doesn't want to spend the time and money
unless it sees a financial result.

The usual way is to code so that everything /should/ work, but only
*officially* support a particular set of browsers and/or platforms. It's a
liability and testing thing.

H1K


 
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Jim Watt
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      08-15-2005
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:17:17 GMT, "Hairy One Kenobi"
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>"Micheal Robert Zium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

>
><snip>
>
>> I never questioned that the idiots at some banks may require their
>> customers to use IE, I was referring to the laughable claim of IE's
>> superior security features.

>
>As I (think) I said, it all comes down to SSL. Older browsers just don't
>have 128-bit, but it was always available as an upgrade option to IE. The
>FirstDirect eBanking trial in 1996 that I participated in also proved that -
>unlike what they told the public - the MS JVM *could* be upgraded in-place.


Older versions of IE were crippled by US export regulations which
sought to limit encryption to 40bits for 'the rest fo the world'
That seems to have gone out the window, which probably
means the NSA are now happy to decrypt it.

had one fervent believer who said I could not possibly
be using PGP as it was embargoed.

Most of the differences between rendering are minor and
many can be overcome by careful coding. Some pages
check to see which browser you are using and change
their behaviour accordingly - this must increase the cost
of development and maintenance.

My frontpage on www.gibnews.net looks different between
IE and Firefox, must get round to fixing that ...
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Matt Silberstein
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      08-15-2005
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:52:37 +0200, in alt.computer.security , Jim
Watt <(E-Mail Removed)_way> in
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:13:41 +0100, Steve Welsh <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>Jim Watt wrote:
>>> So you keep saying, but you have a fixation..
>>>
>>> again the statistics tell a different story
>>>

>>
>>Hmmm, not convinced about who has the fixation, Jim

>Clearly you mistake me for someone who cares what you think.
>
>>Also, I notice that you don't care to mention trends, i.e. that before
>>Firefox arrived on the scene M$ Internet Exploder was running somewhere
>>about 94%.

>
>OK lets look at last years figures:
>
> Browser % of Total Visitors
>---------------------------------------------------
>1 Internet Explorer 6.x 69.48%
>2 Internet Explorer 5.x 15.15%


IE total of about 85%.

>3 Netscape 6.x 3.84%
>4 Netscape 4.x 2.50%
>5 Netscape 3.x 1.14%
>6 Netscape 2.x 1.12%
>7 Netscape 7.x 0.76%
>8 Netscape 5.x 0.76%
>9 google 0.63%
>10 Opera 0.52%
>11 Internet Explorer 4 0.37%


Your previous number, which are the current figures (just to confuse
things)
Browser % of Total Visitors
---------------------------------------------------------------
1 Internet Explorer 6.x 75.46%
2 Netscape 6.x 8.49%
3 Internet Explorer 5. 4.78%
4 Netscape 4.x 3.01%
5 Others 2.00%

That gives an IE total of 80%. By your numbers IE has gone from 85% to
80%. That seems rather significant to me.

>>Don't _your_ (they aren't the only ones) statistics tell you something
>>from that?

>
>Yes, people using IE5 have moved to IE6 people who used
>netscape have migrated to Firefox.


That and that IE has lost market share.

>>Anyway, it's all bollox, cos everybody in the world knows that 93.692%
>>of statistics are made up


93.691% actually.

>Ah but mine represent the other 6.308%

--
Matt Silberstein

Well ya see, Norm, it's like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.

Cliff on Cheers
 
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Jim Watt
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      08-15-2005
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:08:14 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>Yes, people using IE5 have moved to IE6 people who used
>>netscape have migrated to Firefox.

>
>That and that IE has lost market share.


True, but it still has 10x the share of its nearest competitor
and is the dominant browser.

lets look again next year.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Kevin Reiter
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      08-16-2005
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

<snip>

> RBS/Natwest currently mandate IE. FirstDirect (Midland, now HSBC) used to,
> when I was with them. A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
> with Firefox, but I'm not sure of their official policy. I think that
> Commerzbank recently kludged to allow it.


Commerce Bank (in the US) has supported Firefox for over a year and a half
now, since I've had an account with them. Don't know when they were
"kludged to allow it", though, if that's who you were referring to..

Natwest supports ".. a wide range of browsers."

"We have tested the pages of the site with the following browsers:

* Microsoft Internet Explorer Version 4.0, 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 for PCs and
4.5, 5.0 for Macintosh computers
* Netscape Navigator Version 4.7x and 6.1 for PCs and Macintosh computers

They also state the following:

"We are committed to making our site more accessible and support the Web
Accessibility Initiative (WAI). Our product directory has been designed to
meet the WAI recommendations."

http://www.natwest.com/accessibility...=ACCESSIBILITY

I think it's a step in the right direction for more banks to realize that
people aren't only using IE, and code their pages appropriately. Not only
banks, but other businesses as well.

... just my .02 ..

-k
 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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      08-16-2005
"Kevin Reiter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:JZaMe.854$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
>
> > RBS/Natwest currently mandate IE. FirstDirect (Midland, now HSBC) used

to,
> > when I was with them. A friend with Barclays was unable to access

e-banking
> > with Firefox, but I'm not sure of their official policy. I think that
> > Commerzbank recently kludged to allow it.

>
> Commerce Bank (in the US) has supported Firefox for over a year and a half
> now, since I've had an account with them. Don't know when they were
> "kludged to allow it", though, if that's who you were referring to..


No, Commerzbank, as in "Commerzbank". I dunno, these Germans and their funny
spelling... anyone would think that they didn't speak Amercian, of sumpfin
;o)

(If you check back, youd see that *I* was the first to mention Commerce Bank
& Trust in the US)

> Natwest supports ".. a wide range of browsers."
>
> "We have tested the pages of the site with the following browsers:
>
> * Microsoft Internet Explorer Version 4.0, 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 for PCs and
> 4.5, 5.0 for Macintosh computers
> * Netscape Navigator Version 4.7x and 6.1 for PCs and Macintosh computers


Yup. That's the Natwest web site. But /not/ the Natwest eBanking web site...
that's a link on the same page, and no longer seems to state a specific
policy. Instead, they give you a link to see if it'll work.

Firefox took a minor geological age to load the page, but came back with
"OK". Which has to be a good thing... (even if the menu on the left doesn't
display properly. It's that pixel size thing again)

'Course, doesn't mean that you'd get telephone support on Firefox - that'll
be with the T&Cs.

> They also state the following:
>
> "We are committed to making our site more accessible and support the Web
> Accessibility Initiative (WAI). Our product directory has been designed to
> meet the WAI recommendations."


Ditto and, after all, a legal requirement over here.

H1K


 
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