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Call for Windows IE 7 Boycott...

 
 
Imhotep
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      08-03-2005
A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
advocate too!)

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...53256&from=rss

-Im
 
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Winged
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      08-03-2005
Imhotep wrote:
> A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
> advocate too!)
>
> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...53256&from=rss
>
> -Im

The link within the link isn't bad, but barely touches the issues. The
MS focus on their ".NET" initiatives (which the other browsers will not
support) and their continued focus on activeX controls in the Beta
ensure their insecurity for eons to come.

IE 7 isn't off topic. The web browser and e-mail are 2 of the most
common ways to compromise a system.

This document I found informative: Technical overview of IE 7
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

It is inexcusable that MS has not made progress in supporting CSS
standards. More it appears that MS really doesn't care much about
standards but plans on continuing down the proprietary road. .NET has
many of the client security flaws of activeX, now these exploits can be
done using more languages.

The MSDN MS Blog on IE7 also provides insight:
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx

Here is some comments and screen shots:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/20.../ie7_css_upda/
http://www.clothedandy.com/Writings/IE%207%20Beta%201/

From what I have read, think I'll stick with Firefox. I haven't loaded
the beta on a test machine yet, as I see nothing that makes me want to
expend the effort. To me it is amazing that a company who brags on
innovation has so little innovative in the IE product. If they spent a
fraction of their time supporting the user instead of supporting the
DCMA they would be on the right track. MS got its start by supporting
open hardware standards. With Vista they are trying to close things to
a proprietary platform. I am not impressed. I don't believe my
interests are supported by the Vista platform nor the IE7 browser.
Boycott, no, I plan on going other directions, boycott infers I plan to
return.

Winged
 
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Imhotep
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      08-03-2005
Winged wrote:

> Imhotep wrote:
>> A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
>> advocate too!)
>>
>> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...53256&from=rss
>>
>> -Im

> The link within the link isn't bad, but barely touches the issues. The
> MS focus on their ".NET" initiatives (which the other browsers will not
> support) and their continued focus on activeX controls in the Beta
> ensure their insecurity for eons to come.
>
> IE 7 isn't off topic. The web browser and e-mail are 2 of the most
> common ways to compromise a system.
>
> This document I found informative: Technical overview of IE 7
>

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
>
> It is inexcusable that MS has not made progress in supporting CSS
> standards. More it appears that MS really doesn't care much about
> standards but plans on continuing down the proprietary road. .NET has
> many of the client security flaws of activeX, now these exploits can be
> done using more languages.
>
> The MSDN MS Blog on IE7 also provides insight:
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx
>
> Here is some comments and screen shots:
> http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/20.../ie7_css_upda/
> http://www.clothedandy.com/Writings/IE%207%20Beta%201/
>
> From what I have read, think I'll stick with Firefox. I haven't loaded
> the beta on a test machine yet, as I see nothing that makes me want to
> expend the effort. To me it is amazing that a company who brags on
> innovation has so little innovative in the IE product. If they spent a
> fraction of their time supporting the user instead of supporting the
> DCMA they would be on the right track. MS got its start by supporting
> open hardware standards. With Vista they are trying to close things to
> a proprietary platform. I am not impressed. I don't believe my
> interests are supported by the Vista platform nor the IE7 browser.
> Boycott, no, I plan on going other directions, boycott infers I plan to
> return.
>
> Winged



Very well said....I could not agree more.

Im
 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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      08-05-2005
"Winged" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8c589$42f0b36a$18d6d91e$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Imhotep wrote:
> > A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
> > advocate too!)


<snip>

> It is inexcusable that MS has not made progress in supporting CSS
> standards.


<snip>

> From what I have read, think I'll stick with Firefox.


<snip>

Yup. Plenty of scope there for increased support of CSS.. Firefox is much
better than Nutscrape 4, but not nearly as much as it should be.

Usual HTML development procedure: decide what to write (often an hour or
two), format it for use in IE (a couple of minutes, on my home-grown content
management system), then try and work our which bits of Firefox don't work,
or have stopped working, and try and find workarounds (open ended, often
days)

Getting "center" to work properly would be a good start, as would agreeing
that a pixel is a pixel (still both dodgy on 1.0.6). Haven't checked to see
if they've got rid of the hard-coded container limit, though... I'll leave
that for the next major update.

Not that I'm criticising it as an alternative browser, just that it's far
from complete in supporting standards. Both browsers have some pretty horrid
limitations.

--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!


 
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Colin B.
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      08-05-2005
Hairy One Kenobi <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
> Usual HTML development procedure: decide what to write (often an hour or
> two), format it for use in IE (a couple of minutes, on my home-grown content
> management system), then try and work our which bits of Firefox don't work,
> or have stopped working, and try and find workarounds (open ended, often
> days)


Of course, the opposite would hold equally true.

> Not that I'm criticising it as an alternative browser, just that it's far
> from complete in supporting standards. Both browsers have some pretty horrid
> limitations.


This is true, although firefox is much closer to standards conformance than
IE. More to the point, firefox developers consider not complying with an
official standard to be a bug, and something that should be fixed (eventually).
MS does not take this view with IE, and that anti-standards attitude is a
good reason for a boycot.

Colin
 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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      08-13-2005

"Colin B." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hairy One Kenobi <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >
> > Usual HTML development procedure: decide what to write (often an hour or
> > two), format it for use in IE (a couple of minutes, on my home-grown

content
> > management system), then try and work our which bits of Firefox don't

work,
> > or have stopped working, and try and find workarounds (open ended, often
> > days)

>
> Of course, the opposite would hold equally true.


Granted. The problem is when something that has worked for ynks gets..
"unfixed".

Can't remember the exact details ('twas a while ago), but I think that it
involved containers within containers. IIRC, Nutscrape had a hard-coded
limit of four DIVs/SPANs/whatevers, Firefox fixed it, and then broke it in
the next release...

>
> > Not that I'm criticising it as an alternative browser, just that it's

far
> > from complete in supporting standards. Both browsers have some pretty

horrid
> > limitations.

>
> This is true, although firefox is much closer to standards conformance

than
> IE. More to the point, firefox developers consider not complying with an
> official standard to be a bug, and something that should be fixed

(eventually).
> MS does not take this view with IE, and that anti-standards attitude is a
> good reason for a boycot.


Well, they need to take a look at text-align:center. Been broke for as long
as I've been using it. Come to think of it, I've had to use a lot of SPANs
when I /really/ should have been using DIVs. Works in IE, but not in
Firefox. My guess would be that IE got kludged to match Mozilla behaviour,
in addition to the standards.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/stru...l.html#h-7.5.4 gives a good
overview on how you really shouldn't be using SPANs as block elements... but
FF CSS limitations mandate it.

As I said, *both* browsers have some pretty horrid limitations.

H1K


 
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