Permanent data removal

Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a hard
drive?

It was suggested to me that Active Kill Disk was good, however, I have read
mixed reviews and I'm not sure now.

Mike

On 15-Mar-2005, "Mike" <Undisclosed> wrote:

> Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a
> hard
> drive?
>
> It was suggested to me that Active Kill Disk was good, however, I have
> read
> mixed reviews and I'm not sure now.

SpyBot Search & Destroy has an option to 'shred' files that you can
customize to do from 1 to ? 'wipes'.
It's free too.
--
Don't Panic!

ArtDent

In article <YsmdnaRk2cwG5qrfRVn->, "Mike" <Undisclosed> wrote:
>Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a hard
>drive?
>
>It was suggested to me that Active Kill Disk was good, however, I have read
>mixed reviews and I'm not sure now.
>


Sorry, you haven't adequately described your problem. Are you
scrubbing the drive for your own reuse, for resale, or what?

However, in any case, if your security needs are more than
trivial then do NOT erase the disk; DESTROY it instead.

New HDs cost less than a buck a gigabyte these days; destroy the
old one and buy another. Anything else is foolishness (a waste
of time to save only a little money with a significant residual
risk of compromise).

Regards,

PS I know you won't do this (i.e. buy a new HD) but it still
is superb advice (even if I do say so myself

nemo outis

In article <YsmdnaRk2cwG5qrfRVn->, Mike wrote:

>Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a hard
>drive?

Who are you trying to prevent reading the data? If concerned that
Mommy is going to find those nasty sites, just about anything will do.
Is Mommy a scientest with access to a Class 1 clean room? You got a
bigger problem there. Or are you worried about industrial espionage,
or even national secrets? (In the latter case, see the Contracting
Officer, who will have very explicit instructions.)

>It was suggested to me that Active Kill Disk was good, however, I have read
>mixed reviews and I'm not sure now.

Is your access to google broken too? Here, let me help:

secure 'hard disk' delete________________ Search Advanced Search
Preferences
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 1,380,000 for secure 'hard disk' delete.
(0.41 seconds)

secure 'hard disk' delete FAQ____________ Search Advanced Search
Preferences
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 245,000 for secure 'hard disk' delete FAQ.
(0.24 seconds)

The classic paper is Peter Gutmann's paper from 1996, which you can find at
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ecure_del.html

What you have to determine is how hard do you want to make it to recover
the data. Make it impossible? Easy - remove the platters, melt them down
to a puddle. Can't access a furness? Remove the platters, and use a belt
sander with a fine silicon carbide abrasive to sand off the magnetic coating.

Are you looking for a "software solution"? If you are talking impossible to
recover, then there is no such software. Read the Gutmann paper to find out
why. Just want to make it damn difficult? Any software that bypasses the
disk controller, and writes directly to the media will probably do. You do
need to write to a diskspace many times larger than any software or hardware
caching (or disable those caches) so that the data actually gets overwritten.
Repeat that several times. This may still not get everything, because the
average modern drive has 'self repair' sectors that will silently be used to
replace dodgey one - BUT the data will never be removed from replaced sectors.

'hard disk' 'data recovery'______________ Search Advanced Search
Preferences
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 3,260,000 for 'hard disk' 'data recovery'.
(0.16 seconds)

Notice that google finds more hits for hard disk data recovery, than for
secure deletion. Just a hint.

Old guy

Moe Trin

I will be either selling or donating my old computer and that's why I'm
looking for a solution to removing data.
I have been tracking for instance my credit cards (numbers, expiry dates
etc.) I don't really want to donate this information along with the
computer.

<nemo (nemo outis)> wrote in message
news:mQ3_d.699854$Xk.67691@pd7tw3no...
> In article <YsmdnaRk2cwG5qrfRVn->, "Mike" <Undisclosed>
> wrote:
>>Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a hard
>>drive?
>>
>>It was suggested to me that Active Kill Disk was good, however, I have
>>read
>>mixed reviews and I'm not sure now.
>>
>
>
> Sorry, you haven't adequately described your problem. Are you
> scrubbing the drive for your own reuse, for resale, or what?
>
> However, in any case, if your security needs are more than
> trivial then do NOT erase the disk; DESTROY it instead.
>
> New HDs cost less than a buck a gigabyte these days; destroy the
> old one and buy another. Anything else is foolishness (a waste
> of time to save only a little money with a significant residual
> risk of compromise).
>
> Regards,
>
> PS I know you won't do this (i.e. buy a new HD) but it still
> is superb advice (even if I do say so myself
>
>
>

Mike

nemo outis wrote:
> In article <YsmdnaRk2cwG5qrfRVn->, "Mike" <Undisclosed> wrote:
>
>>Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a hard
>>drive?
>>
>>It was suggested to me that Active Kill Disk was good, however, I have read
>>mixed reviews and I'm not sure now.
>>
>
>
>
> Sorry, you haven't adequately described your problem. Are you
> scrubbing the drive for your own reuse, for resale, or what?
>
> However, in any case, if your security needs are more than
> trivial then do NOT erase the disk; DESTROY it instead.
>
> New HDs cost less than a buck a gigabyte these days; destroy the
> old one and buy another. Anything else is foolishness (a waste
> of time to save only a little money with a significant residual
> risk of compromise).
>
> Regards,
>
> PS I know you won't do this (i.e. buy a new HD) but it still
> is superb advice (even if I do say so myself
>
>
>
Actually this is great advice. If you put that into Mom's computer it
will probably crash in 6 months anyway. Causing more work than a new
drive of the same capacity would cost. On my personal boxes I usually
replace them every 3-4 years. With the way capacities are growing, and
getting faster, it really doesn't make much sense to get the last byte
out of it. I still have a number of old 10GB drives that are hardly
used. Good for a Unix cache drive but hardly worth the effort. Of
course I typically migrate the mobo to something else in that time frame
too, as one usually wants the next AMD 64 or some such.

Usually some family member gets the mobo box and drive as an upgrade,
but for mom, she gets a new drive!

If you really want to ensure the data is gone from NSA or FBI grind that
puppy to dust or use a cutting torch and cut those platters to itty
bitty pieces. (heat releases the molecular alignment making readability
even of the pieces questionable. Makes a pretty flame, best done while
drinking a few good German beers, with friends. If you grind the disk
before putting torch to it the metal actually catches fire when you put
the cutting torch to the dust. Might want to ensure you are not inside.
It really takes some time to destroy the data properly But it does
make a fine excuse for a party.

Question: Does anyone know if this creates toxic fumes? I am still
here but just curious....

Winged

winged

winged <> wrote:
> nemo outis wrote:
>> In article <YsmdnaRk2cwG5qrfRVn->, "Mike" <Undisclosed> wrote:
>>
>>>Can anyone suggest a good program to permanently delete data off of a hard
>>>drive?
>>>
> If you really want to ensure the data is gone from NSA or FBI grind that
> puppy to dust or use a cutting torch and cut those platters to itty
> bitty pieces. (heat releases the molecular alignment making readability
> even of the pieces questionable. Makes a pretty flame, best done while
> drinking a few good German beers, with friends. If you grind the disk
> before putting torch to it the metal actually catches fire when you put
> the cutting torch to the dust. Might want to ensure you are not inside.
> It really takes some time to destroy the data properly But it does
> make a fine excuse for a party.

I'm curious about the process here. Specifically, why German beers? Would
a good Scottish ale work as well?

> Question: Does anyone know if this creates toxic fumes? I am still
> here but just curious....

I've seen suggestions of phosphorus, cobalt, and ruthenium used in the
coating process. Take a cutting torch to this, and you're going to end
up with heavy metal oxide vapours floating around. It's probably fairly
small amounts, but I'd definitely avoid breathing the fumes in as much
as possible.

Colin B.

In article <wYGdnb7-ZKvreaXfRVn->, "Mike"
<Undisclosed> wrote:
>I will be either selling or donating my old computer and that's why I'm
>looking for a solution to removing data.
>I have been tracking for instance my credit cards (numbers, expiry dates
>etc.) I don't really want to donate this information along with the
>computer.


If you are determined to take the risk, then here's what I
recommend. It's tedious and still less than ideal but will
thwart almost all amateurs and many pros.

1. Do a **low-level** erase with the **HD manufacturer's**
program including any bad or remapped sectors (e.g., the latest
version of WDDIAG or Lifeguard tools for Western Digital drives,
MAXLLF or LLFUTIL for Maxtor, etc.) and do a full erase &
low-level format on the drive, including restoring all "bad"
sectors if you can (in order to erase them).

2. Erase the disk with a good multi-pass eraser (I like
BCWipe but Tolvanen's Eraser or something similar would also do).
I suggest not fewer than 7 overwrite passes; more is better, but
life is short

3. **Essential!** Attempt data recovery with one or more
tools as a QA check of your erasing! (File Scavenger is the best
for - former - NTFS volumes; a number of programs will do for
various flavours of FAT). If you can recover *anything* consider
abandoning the erasing policy and revert to my (recommended)
destruction policy.

Regards,

PS Paranoids will go for even more elaborate schemes, such
as (in terms of the above steps): 2 - 3 - 1 - 3

PPS It may be necessary to reformat the drive (high-level)
beween steps 1 & 2 for your multipass eraser of choice to work
(some require this, some don't).

nemo outis

>
> I'm curious about the process here. Specifically, why German beers? Would
> a good Scottish ale work as well?
>

>
> I've seen suggestions of phosphorus, cobalt, and ruthenium used in the
> coating process. Take a cutting torch to this, and you're going to end
> up with heavy metal oxide vapours floating around. It's probably fairly
> small amounts, but I'd definitely avoid breathing the fumes in as much
> as possible.
>

Alas, my education is lacking, I have had many a fine ale, but never a
Scottish one. If Scottish ale has similar field properties that other
ales, meads, largers, malts, and stouts have the end result should be
pleasant.

Thanks about the heavy metal warnings. I avoid breathing vapors when
becoming retentive about destruction. Usually I am just looking for an
excuse to party

winged

winged wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious about the process here. Specifically, why German beers? Would
>> a good Scottish ale work as well?
>>
>
>>
>> I've seen suggestions of phosphorus, cobalt, and ruthenium used in the
>> coating process. Take a cutting torch to this, and you're going to end
>> up with heavy metal oxide vapours floating around. It's probably fairly
>> small amounts, but I'd definitely avoid breathing the fumes in as much
>> as possible.
>>
>
> Alas, my education is lacking, I have had many a fine ale, but never a
> Scottish one.

Nor has anyone else

Martin